Cover art type "Liner"

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Hi,
I’ve run into another type definition problem. I’ve looked up another CD and got a match on a quite good documented release with sufficient scans done by @Zhele (Anna Calvi - Hunter). :smiley:

But the use of Cover art types was very different from my edits.
This release belongs to the rare species of CD covers with a real liner - a protective sleeve surrounding the medium, inserted together into the outer cover. But the liner was set type Other with comment “Sleeve”. Okay, this should probably be a Liner and as the the inside of the opened Gatefold cover is probably no tray, it should be changed to … to what? :thinking:

I often marked this part as a liner (if the CD is inserted directly into the outer cover), but avoided this for covers with “real” liners. Then I fell back on Other with comment “full cover inside” or something like that. (happend only once so far - Björk - Vulnicura Strings). But it felt somehow inconsistent.

I’ve read Need help with album art type about the varying use of liner, but it is only mentioned there and instead the actual problem with packaging solved. It could be still a liner - a kind of secondary protective sleeve. :wink:

Or should the use of liner better be restricted to (more or less) classic liners?

When I proposed that cover art type, I intended for it to be used for record (or CD) sleeve liners. A lot of editors don’t understand this. I’ve seen editors add “liner” to digital covers, even. I blame the fluid use of the term “liner notes,” which as you (and others) may know originally meant information printed on the protective liner of an LP but has since morphed to mean just information on a release, regardless of where it’s printed.

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Perhaps if it was named “Liner sleeve” it would be used more correctly?

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I set this as cardboard sleeve, why liner?

I set this as liner, why other?

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I use liner as @HibiscusKazeneko describes it. A separate paper\card\plastic sleeve that hold the disk separate to the outside packaging. Your Björk is correct in my eyes. And Hunter should be changed in the same way.

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Actually I thought of that. It’s most common to to print information there which would have appeared on a liner. And interestingly enough on both releases with CD liner the “liner notes” appear on this liner while there’s no text elsewhere on the cover. But that’s probably no rule…

…and of course, I’ll stop using “liner” for other parts of the cover, even if they have liner notes :wink:

Comment “cardboard sleeve”? There’s no such type. Type is “Other”?

And the “Tray” should be “Other”?

Oh sorry, I mistook with release package.

Then it’s Front and Back, not Liner, IMO. :slight_smile:

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Now my confusion is perfect … what’s front and back?
I talked about

  1. a CD liner, which is inserted in
  2. a “not liner”, but what?
    That’s the backside of front+spine+back.

This one looks like a gatefold cover but I don’t have it in hands.

It is, and what Cover art type would you recommend?

That is easy. When a CD pack in hand and it is closed then the front usually has the main image on and the back has the barcode on it.

There is no " back" of the booklet. And no “back” of a liner.

This is just “front” and “back” in physical space. EVERYTHING has a front and a back - even a box.

The image you showed is a front+spine+back

This is Front+Spine+Back. The outside of the package that you see when it is on the table in front of you.

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That is where is starts to get messy as the list of choices is badly out of date. It is designed around a single CD Jewel Case and a single LP Vinyl case. With “obi” and “sticker” tagged in there as these often appear on jewel cases.

Here is the logic I follow when uploading artwork.

“Front” and “Back” are always easy as they are physical locations that match everything. Even boxes have a front and back.

I assume a “tray” is only relevant to a jewel case. So an image with the actual jewel bit is a “tray”. A CD still mounted in the jewel bit is “tray + medium”. The bit of cardboard tucked behind a clear tray is “tray + spine”. Kinda easy there.

And then a booklet is the thing tucked in front of the jewel case with multiple pages with words on. Usually the “front” is also “page 1 of the booklet”.

Even when that is a single folded piece of paper it is still a four page “booklet”.

And now it gets messy and imagination has to be applied to objects doing the same task. This is also based on what I observed other editors doing. Now we have cardboard Digiboxes and Cardboard Sleeves for CDs, gatefolds, and a lack of types. I will start bending rules here as “other” is a bit odd as that is aimed at marketing shots and the like. If I have a cardboard gatefold in hand and looking at words on the inside, then I will tick “booklet” as that is the closest fit. It is internal pages of the product performing the task of a booklet, then booklet I tick.

This thought came from the booklet that are part of a digibook as they are just extra pages stuck into the digipak. So where does book start being a book?

There needs to be a better term for it as so many CDs are now released in this cheaper cardboard format. Look at that Eilish package. A three part fold out cardboard sleeve. There should be a better term for the bit where the lyrics are printed. In the past these would be pages of a book, but what are they now?

And there is an obvious need for a “matrix” or “hub” type as I’m sticking “other+medium” on those based on advice I received years ago.

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Really?! I thought, that’s the part where front image, spine and back with information would be visible.

Ah, sorry, that is the inside isn’t it? In that case it is not defined in the guidelines. And I tick “booklet” as it is doing the job of the booklet in an equivalent jewel case. It is not “correct” but it is as close as we can get without a real option.

I can see the logic as to how this can become “tray”, but I know other sites who have clear expectations that a “tray” image is just that - a tray a CD is placed on top of.

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But than it could be a liner as well because of the liner notes.

No. I’d never call it “liner” as that is also a specifically defined thing as @HibiscusKazeneko stated. A thin little sleeve for holding the actual disk.

Hence why I gravitated to “booklet” as the closest thing I could make sense of from the choices. This is now the common way to replace a book. And in many cases once an extra couple of sheets are glued in then it becomes a bigger book.

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OK, and sometimes there are even lyrics printed all over it, but there might be a real booklet included too. … I thought, this would be a simple question with an immediate answer, but seems to be difficult too.

Off topic:
I need a relationship for a work with lyrics from another work. I have made it “based on” the first work, but how can I say that it reused its lyrics.

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I have other items with two booklets. One of lyrics, the other of promo stuff. Tucked into a cardboard gatefold! Hence with me “if useful information is written on it, then it becomes a book”. A “book” can define a single one page sheet of paper up to a full multi-page novel included with the CD. (And yes, I have those too = LOLz)

It is the classic issue of trying to make things fit into a category. :wink: You missed last year’s debate trying to define Male\Female\Other. The more you try and make boxes to fit things in to, the more boxes you then need when you realise how much doesn’t fit. :smiley:

Slipcases and Boxes are also a headache. And then there is the boxset of Jewel Cases when you can end up with loads of “Fronts” and “Backs”.

The key is to make use of the notes. Label things clearly as you go. Use a bit of common sense. And be prepared to return to everything one day when new categories appear.

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10 posts were split to a new topic: Relationship for a work with lyrics from another work

Only the outer most package should be Front and Back.

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