Disambiguation \ ETI in track lists - why is it hidden from everyone without magic voodoo scripts?

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Why is the disambiguation text hidden from non-members?

If someone visits MusicBrainz without extra scripts changing the page, or if they visit and not logged in as a member, why is the disambiguation text missing from a Release?

We have a number of editors who trawl the database deleting anything in brackets and screaming about ETI and pointing to guidelines. These editors strip everything away from a track name that doesn’t fit a guideline. Or remove locations of a gig. Or move (live) notes into disambiguation. Or the fact the track is a (demo) or (alternate mix). They often will point to the fact the disambiguation field is where these details should be. Yeah - guidelines :roll_eyes:. I am not going to go into that debate here. :slight_smile:

BUT why is it that this information then becomes so hidden for normal people trying to access this site?

Like many editors, I have a script that puts that text up onto the screen so I can see that information when I go from Release to Release. I assume many editors use this same script. Trouble is that hides what “normal” users see.

Logged in users see this:

Logged out users and non-members see this:

Please can we get the disambiguation text visible on the release for non-logged in users \ non-members. That way the people stripping out the ETI text will not be causing so much confusion for non-members.

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This is quite clearly a bug. Please report it as such on the ticket tracker.

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I just turned off my userscripts for the first time after many months and was surprised how many beloved features suddenly disappeared :hushed:
The recording disambiguations in release tracklists are definitely not part of the standard UI because they also disappeared. They must be added by a userscript, it is mb. INLINE STUFF by @jesus2099 IIRC.

@IvanDobsky For me it makes no difference whether I’m logged in or not, I don’t see any disambiguations at A Trip to the Moon: The Early 1972 UK Concerts - like on your second screenshot :thinking:
That’s very strange, because it works for other releases I’ve checked, regardless of my login state. Maybe that’s caused by the many media that are collapsed by default? But then I wonder how you got the first screenshot above…

@Freso If this is a bug it should be reported at https://github.com/jesus2099/konami-command/issues instead - but for feature requests you’re right.

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I have already reported this bug myself long time ago:

I wish we would have this feature in the server code directly. :slight_smile:


We can open a release with one of the mediums preloaded: https://musicbrainz.org/release/81e3c9e6-46af-4cb2-9cf2-fb53d8ba0aa5/disc/1#disc1
Update your INLINE STUFF script and click link above to see CD1 inline stuff.
I could at least fix my script to run with this kind of URL because it works (only for the preloaded disc), I have just tested it.

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Oops, although I filtered the issues by tag I’ve overseen this :innocent:
Thank you for the quick partial fix - I still don’t get how that first screenshot has been made before the update.

I definitely would like to see this, too.

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The top shot is my active copy of Vivaldi with some scripts in place (hence the Edit Recording Comments button). All I did for the screen clipping was open the first CD up to be viewed by clicking the standard arrow to expand the listview for CD1. The example also shows a Release without lots of Works linked yet which is why a lot of the “normal” looking info is missing. (Intentionally selected to keep focus on my question)

The second shot is from a dumb scriptless copy of Firefox which has never been logged in by my MB account. Again I clicked open the listview of CD1.

@jesus2099 - not sure what an NG is. I was not reporting any issues in your addon. This is about what is lost without your excellent additions.

This thread is about the lack of details in the DEFAULT view. Or bug as @Freso calls it. Been too long since I remember what the site looks like without scripts in place. And I get a feeling too many other users are in the same place.

Doesn’t this make you wonder how many other potential new editors walk away and give up due to them editing a “different” website to what the rest of us see? Especially the ETI issue as it is very destructive to the known titles for a track. That boxset above would be comical without ETI as the same track names appear on each of the separate disks again and again.

Which bug are you talking about? I am now confused by the conversation about your addon. I am not pointing at any bug in your addon.

Or are you saying you had already put a Ticket into the main MB Ticket system about this loss of (disambiguation) without your add-on?

Edit
Oh - I think I have worked out your confusions. There is no inline stuff to display on this page from a linked work. That was an intentional choice by me to focus on the issue I am reporting.

I am working on this release now. I have not yet linked up Works here as many of these tracks are earlier versions of the tracks and different to the ones that made it to the release of Dark Side of the Moon. These are the first live versions of the music and many will be “the basis of” the final track.

I need to listen to the whole multi-disk boxset and do some reading before I can link things up properly.

Sorry to have caused you confusions with these screenshots. I guess that is what @kellnerd is referring to?

Kinda ironic that I post a thread about a bug, and it immediately jumps off topic :roll_eyes:

I cannot myself see these inline stuff for this 11+ medium release because it’s theoritically impossible with my script alone without fixing that old issue.

I am really interested to know if you can still see all medium inline comments like this on this release?
And if so, what scripts do you have running on this page?


Yesterday I made it possible for only one medium at a time, though: CD1, CD2, … CD11.

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Please highlight on that image what you are meaning is “impossible”. Multiple Disk Sets have always displayed fine for me. Don’t often go over ten disks so it is harder to say what happens there.

I do have a weird combination of scripts in place as can be see by the two Edit Relationships tabs at the top.

If this is just about the open or closed list views - notice how I opened this one CD manually by clicking on the purple arrow, and the second CD is still closed (as can be seen by the direction of that purple arrow)

Comically only CD11 is the one I have linked to Works so far. And you can see that shows a more normal layout (I think?)

And this has been working like this all week.

My copy of Vivaldi has these scripts on that page. I can get settings from them (but you’ll need to tell me where to find those settings on a PC - I assume stashed in %APPDATA%\Vivaldi somewhere?)
image

To be honest with you, I don’t know what half of them do. I have added some and then forgotten when they are doing or why. Just know how unusable the default MB website is for me without these additions.

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When I worked on that page I worked in various ways. All thanks to the scripts giving me better edit power.

Here is what I did to get the gig location into the disambiguration of every recording. That Edit Recording Comments Button is great for that.

I’d open the page and see all the separate CDs “collapsed” so the view is as so:

I would click on the Tracklist expand all medium links to quickly see EVERY CD now open on the web page. All of them showing their full sets of extra data that are accessible from the Works. BUT hardly any works are linked here which is why currently it only shows shows disk 11 with that info in full.

When I was working through these adding the concert dates and location to the disambiguration I find that Edit Recording Comments button really handy. I would open just two CDs - CD3 and CD4 like following image. And then I could apply the same text to both of those at the same time.

I would find after applying it was best to fully reload the webpage so it cleanly reverted back to fully closed before moving to naming the recordings on the next pair of CDs.

I did find this was sometimes a bit buggy if I allowed it to see all the CDs open at the same time. A few times I noticed the wrong values being copied into the open edit boxes of the “edit recording comments”. This is why I would hit the reload of the whole page to reset any script oddness.

An example of the buggy Edit Recording Comments can be triggered as so…

  • Open page fresh. Everything is closed.
  • Click on CD7 and CD8 to open them. You now see this:
  • Click on Edit recording comments button and bogus data now appears in the boxes. (That bogus data has come from CD1, Track 1 I guess). Maybe the lack of Works causing this as I notice the correct text has been shuffled to the right.

It is not a serious bug as I was able to work around it. And I don’t think the duff values got written just displayed.

If I have totally misunderstood your question, then apologies. I have no idea what " NG with release with more than 10 mediums after MBS-3841" means as it might as well be written in Japanese. :wink:

@Freso - can we get this separate discussion about the addon split to a new thread. Yeah, it is ironic it has now happened to me when I am asking a simple question about a GUI issue and now we are debugging something else unrelated. I don’t want the REAL issue about a script-less website view here to be lost while improving the scripts that a select few use. I assume we have gone off tangent from post four - but I am still trying to understand what that tangent is :confused:

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@Freso, I don’t think we need to split this topic which is all about displaying recording disambiguation inside the release page.

@IvanDobsky, the recording disambiguations are never displayed by MusicBrainz, whether or not you are logged in.
Open this release in Internet Explorer or any other browser in which you have absolutely no user scripts.
Log in and you will not see the disambiguations.

I have many other questions but I will keep each post short for the sake of clarity.

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When you come to https://musicbrainz.org/release/81e3c9e6-46af-4cb2-9cf2-fb53d8ba0aa5 with all 11 mediums closed.
When you click a medium for the first time, do you see a spinning GIF with the Loading… text for a demi-second before the tracklist appears or does they all seem preloaded and appear immediately?

spinning stuff Loading…

Update

OK I found out that it’s most probably @murdosMusicBrainz UI Enhancements script that does display the inline recording comments in the release page, apparently.


NG: No good

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You misunderstand. I KNOW NO ONE CAN SEE THE DISAMBIGUATION - THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT! :slight_smile:

This topic is about what the default user sees who has no scripts at all sees. This is about improving what a normal person who accesses the website sees. I think @Freso understands my point. A user not logged in should always see the disambiguation text.

We are now instead talking about a script and how it changes the view. Very different conversation. Your scripts are great. Especially when combined with others. But that is beyond the average user. I expect the stats show plenty of visitors who never login.

-=-=-

I’ll try and now answer some of your points. And again we are off down a rabbit hole of confusion. Slow down and pretend that I am not the idiot you are assuming me to be. I am just not a web developer so i am not used to writing scripts to modify pages. Now please go back and read the first post. The script was only mentioned as a comparison to show an example of what other users see.

The screenshot came from Firefox which has no script monkeys attached. I’ll ignore the implied insult of using IE and instead swap to Pale Moon which has NoScript in place. Now I get even less details shown.

To be clear - I am manually opening that first CD every time so I can show the problem.

If I now click on No Script and allow MusicBrainz.org and StaticBrainz.org to run any scripts it pleases then I see this:

I’ll try and make sense of your questions, but I can’t do this now as I have work to do.

Why are you comparing logged in and not logged in?
It is the same to me.

  • In release page: No recording disambiguation, whether logged in or not
  • In recording page: Yes recording disambiguation, whether logged in or not

image

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See - you are misunderstanding me. :slight_smile:

Take your brain out for a moment. Pretend you don’t know anything about databases. Pretend you are just some person who is into music. Think about that dumb user who finds MusicBrainz for the first time.

I am not thinking about you or I when using this database. I am thinking of that nobody who has never visit before and wants to read up information. Just like when they go read Wikipedia without being a member.

Now think about when they look at a Release page. Reading it as a summary about the CD in held their hand. They want to know about the release they own. And they would expect to see those details on the Release page without needing to click on each of the recordings in turn.

Clicking on a recording is going to give you all the location details anyway.

I have probably given a bad example here using one with (live gig details) in the brackets. Think more about those where (demo) (live) and (unreleased version) are in the brackets. (Later I’l try and locate one to better illustrate the point)

Sorry - I have to take a break. My head is spinning.

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Of course having those comments without having to use a script would be great.
But it has nothing to do with logged in / not logged in. :slight_smile:

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My confusion is caused by the fact that I don’t see these disambiguations from your first screenshot, although I’ve installed the mb. INLINE STUFF userscript. But that’s settled now, the answer is simply that a different userscript includes these disambiguations for you, as explained here:

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I have to agree with @jesus2099 here, and think that it is your title of the topic that is misleading. It should be something like Disambiguation (in tracklists) - why is it hidden from non-userscript users? … Okay, I know this sounds awkward, but I hope it helps you to get our point and overcome our misunderstanding.

Hopefully we can finally discuss your topic now, pretending to visit MB without knowing what a userscript is :wink:

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I have adjusted the title, but this is why I showed examples. I thought those images would help to explain what I was talking about. It is only when I saw Jesus2099’s clip of a Recording page did I realise how far off understanding had got of my question.

Maybe I just should not have put up an example of what I see when I login. You have both focused on why my scripts are different to yours instead of thinking about why the non-user doesn’t get to see (disambiguation) on their view of the website.

Also note - “userscript” is not a word I’d use or know what you are referring to. Kinda why it is not in the title. And am trying to talk from the viewpoint of a noobie ID-10T user who is here for the first time.

Too many people at MB assume everyone is a scripting and relational database expert. This is really not the case in the RealWorld™. And IMHO the scripts are part of the reason of not getting as many people joining as MB really needs. Everyone sees a different website.

I do understand the points that you guys are trying to make - but they are so off topic it is getting comical. (Extra comical to me as I am the one usually accused of going off topic and having my posts thrown into other threads :crazy_face:) This is getting to a point I may just delete the thread and try again as it is all a waste of time and my actual point is drown in a confusing conversation about the exact scripts that cause the problems for noobies in the first place.

Yeah - I’ll help debug your scripts, but I was hoping to first help improve what people see. Not a chance now as there is too much text here in this thread for sane people to read.

I am certainly no internet novice, but I am not here to learn yet another computer language. I am here to work on music and releases. My aim was a break from the IT work I do and improve the musical side. Sometimes I worry this place is a little too much about the databases and the users are getting forgotten.

-=-=-

I give up. I now realise I am also getting first and second confused. Trying to have too many different conversations at the same time while also trying to solve problems in the RealWorld™ for clients at the same time.

I am also kinda surprised that so few people can even see the (disambiguration) text. It makes even less sense as to why that ETI brigade delete so much data.

But it does also show how far OT this has been dragged when your questions about what you see on the images and not why doesn’t everyone see that Mcmurdo addition.

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We are not getting off topic, we are just striving to understand your 2 km long posts. :joy:

You changed the title but it’s still wrong IMO because you imply that members can see comments in tracklists and non members can’t.

Update

Nobody (members, non-members, logged in, not logged in) sees recording comments in release page (without using some external tools).

I think all of us who wrote in this topic think it’s a pity.
And there I found an open ticket about that:

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