I imagine what a lyric video is, but what is a visualiser music video? Any example?
I have some links to some in an earlier post in the thread but basically itâs âa video for the music but where the video itself is a lot less important than the music and itâs just so you have something going on while you listen on YouTubeâ, from my understanding.
Iâve been adding videos to the site and I was holding myself to some guidelines I made up so I wouldnât cause any trouble on the site.
After reading this topic I feel I was being to strict with my own guidelines, but Iâll post what I was thinking here in case it would help.
Note: I donât think people should be held to these because their restrictive and not based on other Music Brainz Guidelines, this is just what I was doing.
- First I didnât know youtubers were allowed. I assumed you had to be published by a label of some sort.
But, since Iâm labeling music videos not just for myself but for my friends, I did accidentally do exactly that
At the time my thinking was: This music video required a director. Basically I just thought it âfeltâ like a music video and the only quantifiable thing I can put my finger on is it had a director.
But Iâm not sure if âhaving a directorâ is a good criteria for being a music video or not, especially when their are Music videos that âFeelâ like music videos without a director, or when you canât find a director listed anywhere
One song I did pass over for fear of not having a director was Oil by the Gorillaz. I donât think it shouldnât be on the site, I just thought it might cause trouble and I didnât want any.
- I didnât do fan made videos because I thought that was outside the scope of the site, but posts above have me rethinking that.
Though Iâve seen/thought about some interesting edge case of âfan-madeâ.
One is a fan making something, and the artist deciding to post it or re-post it on their YouTube page. does this make it âOfficialâ?
Another, very specific, one is this. according to my friend itâs a fan made music video for âTame Impala - Borderlineâ and it âFeelsâ like a music video. Also if quality is called into question the band never made a music video for this song so would something be better quality then something that doesnât exist? I donât know I donât have an answer.
Lastly their are videos with no official internet channels to be posted on and are primarily kept alive by archivists. I feel like these videos count because they where produced and used as a music video by the original artists (unless they where a hoax somehow) However when I did come across one of these videos I didnât link the Youtube video to the music video page. I was worried I would cause problems for music brianz, the youtuber, or both.
Thatâs the end of the guidelines I was holding myself to, but reading through the topic made me think of some examples.
- Sometimes their are short and long versions of music vidoes.
I listen to a few youtubers who do covers, and one thing Iâve seen them do a few time is theyâll post a short version of a cover and then a long one.
Short
Long
This can often be seen when doing a cover of an opening theme song to an anime, or some other show. The short version is the opening, the full version is the whole song.
Should both versions be allowed or only the long version?
And if only the long version, does that mean Intro and Outro videos of TV shows are also dis-allowed? I had actually assumed that intro outro videos where also outside the scope of the site, and I havenât heard them talked about in this topic yet(or if they where I missed it).
Thatâs all I can think of, sorry if my formatting is not great.
have a good one.
I also saw people discussing what a âVisualizerâ is.
I donât know either, but the person who made the âOilâ video for the Gorillaz claims to only do visualizers. so their Youtube page should be full of examples.
Or at least, examples of what they consider to be visualizers.
OMG humanity and internetâŚ
These take gigabytes of video streaming (think pollution).
They even look quite lame compared to 4k intros (yes, just four kilobytes including music).
Here is a video rendering of some âbestâ quite recent ones (21st century, I donât know them, lol).
Visualiser people should just stop stack up gigabytes of no-added-value video streaming, or learn to do 4 kilobytes + audio rips.
The summum of mankind musicianship artistic suicide of the fun to create, will be IA generated visualisers for IA generated music.
Ultimate Algorithmic Idiocy will be an AI generated reaction video to the AI generated visuals on top of AI generated musicâŚ
Someone will then sell an NFT to you so you can own itâŚ
Need to have a new data field next to a recording - GigaWatts of power used to create. How many watts of power does a guy with a acoustic guitar use up?
I donât think a (known) director is necessary for a music video. Especially in the era of early music videos, it was not common to name a director. In some cases it is impossible to find out.
There are also cases where there is no director at all. Thereâs camera, actor and editor. The plot developed between actor and camera and it was edited after that - no one in charge. (Not every music video is high art )
Like you, I would not create fan-made music videos (whatever quality) or link fan-uploaded videos (for legal reasons).
And I do not create recordings for lyrics videos or visualizers unless itâs a piece of art itself - e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZEGYsAvJg
PS: Actually, Iâve done very little of this so far, but I eventually willâŚ
okay then, how many watts of power did The Beatles use to create Srgt. Peppers?
(that does have some good overly-specific-trivia energy thoâŚ)
on the note of quality, I donât think that should be the main factor as to whether it should be allowed in MusicBrainz⌠you may look at this video and think itâs just a guy lip syncing in his bedroom (which to be fair, it is). I see an early example of a viral music video on the internet, with many parodies and references to this day (even made it on South Park) (more info on the Know Your Meme article)
if someone wants to document that their favorite animator made an unofficial music video for a My Chemical Romance song, if an editor wants to add all music videos (official and fanmade) for their favorite artist, if someone wants to document one of their favorite compilation music videos from their childhood and they just recently found who actually did the music used in the Chicken Dance portion (bit of a personal example here⌠it was not the Blue Man Group as credited in the video), I believe we can make a place for that in MusicBrainz
edit: rewatching that personal example reminds me just how much music I was introduced in that one video, probably my introduction to Gorillaz, Queen, and Green Day, among others
you know⌠thinking about it again, I feel like official non-music videos could be allowed in MusicBrainz, at least as standalone recordings. weâve already got equivalents from various DVDs and Enhanced CD releases (examples below from my collection), but I donât know that release dates, thumbnails, and whatnot are as important for non-music (tho I would be okay with these being Other releases too, but I donât expect many others will be on board with that)
- Video âThe Making of "Innocence & Instinct" Documentaryâ by Red - MusicBrainz
- Video âThe Making of âShoot to Thrillâ Music Videoâ by AC/DC - MusicBrainz
- Video âBehind the Treadmillsâ by OK Go - MusicBrainz
- Video âHow to Build a Secret Weaponâ by MxPx - MusicBrainz
- Video âBehind-the-Scenes Featurette on the Making of Straight Outta Lynwoodâ by âWeird Alâ Yankovic - MusicBrainz
- Video âAbbey Road MiniâDocumentaryâ by The Beatles - MusicBrainz
I think if someone wants to document official music-related YouTube videos in MusicBrainz, maybe that could be an option, is all
something to also consider discussing at some point (tho let me know if this is off-topic, @reosarevok), how to split video recordings? Iâm sure we can agree that audio differences mean different recordings (like the addition of diegetic audio between this video and that), but beyond that, we donât have any guidelines or documentation yet
edit: made a new thread for more visibility
Certainly cannot be a factor in all cases at least⌠because this wonder is an official music video
Reviewing the discussion above, Iâm starting to reach the following conclusions:
Releases of music in video form, such as music videos and concert recordings, can be added as MusicBrainz releases as long as they fulfill at least one of the following conditions:
- Theyâre an official music video, lyric video or visualizer made available by the artist or label, be it for purchase or stream.
- Theyâre an official live video made available by the artist or label, be it for purchase or stream.
- Theyâre a bootleg live video of a song or a full concert made available by a fan.
Minor video releases such as short teasers for a longer video and brief snippets of a live show should generally not be added as a MusicBrainz release, but they can be added as a standalone recording.
I am still unsure what to think about fan-made non-live videos. I can see the appeal, but having them in a filmography seems wrong to me - possibly standalone recording is the place to be?
I still think taking a queue from the remix guidelines is the way to go; to enter the video creator as the release / release group artist and the music artist as the track / recording artist. I forget if I linked it above, but Iâve already created one such video release as an example
My problem with that idea is that we start moving from the music artist being the recording/release artist to the video artist being that - but having the video artist as the main artist seems weird for MusicBrainz. That would seem equivalent to having the video director for the official videos then, which we donât have.
I see your pointâŚ
lemme explain my logic tho using the above example⌠aimkid (the animator) is the artist who did the releasing, so it kinda makes sense to have them as the release artist (similar to the remix guidelines). aimkid did not make the music in the video, so thatâs credited to 100 gecs (the music artist) on all levels (both recording and track)
if the video was released by the music artist (say, Bread by Anya Nami) or by their label (like Diggy Diggy Hole by Wind Rose on Napalm Records), then the release artist would be the music artist, of course
with how MusicBrainz is set up currently, that gives good visibility to official music videos and reasonable visibility to unofficial videos (i.e. they donât clutter the music artistsâ page, but are visible on the video creatorsâ page)
that said, Iâm down for a different solution if you feel thatâs too confusing (or perhaps even a change to how releases are displayed? idk). we probably shouldnât be tagging for the renderer, if possible
if itâs holding up a decision on official videos, Iâm fine leaving unofficial videos unmentioned for now tho~ (as long as theyâre open for discussion in the future)
in the meantime, Iâve made a collection for the unofficial releases that do exist already~
Ok! Letâs do that for now, since nobody else seems to have any strong objections. Not sure whatâs a good next step that wonât be too controversial, but possibly release date for these? So letâs try:
What should be the release date for a video release
For a physical release, this is obvious and the same as for a non-video release. Same for a digital purchase option.
For streaming, I expect the answer is âthe earliest the video was made available on a streaming platformâ (so, for example, if the video was on Vimeo first and then a few weeks later also on YouTube, we wouldnât add a second release for that but would just use the original Vimeo date, as we would with multiple digital stores with different dates).
The only doubt I have is what happens with videos that were originally shown on TV or the like. Is that a release, and if so, of what kind? The broadcast guidelines use the date of the release of the CD or download, rather than the broadcast date. Should we do the same for music videos and not add a release at all for a TV broadcast, but only if and when they were available for purchase? I donât know what that would mean for videos predating the digital era, or for things like live performances on something like Top of the Pops.
I personally donât like the Broadcast style solution in this case, and think we should rather consider the air date as the release date, for multiple reasons
- the release group date would show properly (if music videos get their own release group especially, but can apply in other cases, like a music video with no audio single), and that date can be retrieved through the API. basically, I wouldnât expect Take On Me to show up as a 2010 release group, but rather a 1985 release
- this would also properly set the recording first release date for different versions of a particular video (like the 2019 diagetic audio version of Take On Me)
- lastly, it feels more consistent with similar data, specifically audio-only music recordings. a minor point, but consistency is good to consider
while yes, this is different from how I think we currently handle audio tracks (I havenât seen a radio release for a song, for example), I think it makes sense with how videos are released
Top of the Pops is an interesting point tho, since that feels more like a Broadcast release to me (tho it might not be, I only briefly read the Wikipedia article several months ago). if we do treat these as broadcast releases, perhaps each music video and performance can get its own âtrackâ?
I dunno, itâs an idea (tho I donât know if I even like it that much, lol). if we do both, we could end up with duplicate releases for a video by itself and as part of Top of the Pops. might not be an issue, but stillâŚ
(or maybe Iâm making things too complicated⌠I tend to do that, lol)
(Am I too late? What follows is a draft from 2024-03-12T23:00:00Z)
Fanmade content is relevant. Sometimes itâs the only kind of music videos youâll get to see:
But whom to credit and how to name it is a good question Iâve thought about before, eventually Iâve settled for the creator of fanmade videos mostly.
we should also add an âofficialâ checkbox to the Music Video
This is assumed to be used exclusively for official videos, so if anything there needs to be an unofficial attribute
PMVs
There is another kind of PMV but Iâm not sure everyone will appreciate those especially if they start appearing on the front page (E.g. NoodleDude who also releases music as part of the duo YUMMYNOODZ)
A competition named âWorld PMV Gamesâ is held yearly.
Not to mention official videos with music throughout.
Visualizers I have added a few but am still unsure. For example KSLV who mostly releases singles and each one has visualizer with a similar theme or the Nothing Is Easy EP where each track has a slightly different visualization (Two of them are already here).
For cases like Kobaryo, Marsimoto or Reinelex Records where each track from an album has a âvideoâ. itâs a no from me, too similar and âunoriginalâ for a lack of better words.
Same for promo/curator channels such as Yume and DubstepGutter (unless itâs a more âofficialâ proper video)
Lyric videos I have added a little more. There can be sophisticated or simple ones with few if any animations. Not to mention unofficial lyric videos. E.g. BTK Halle Neustadt by Mista Grimm which uses the official video in the background.
I wouldnât add such unofficial lyric videos, same reason as above.
Iâm actually kinda surprised Iâm not the only one who decided to credit the video creator in cases like these⌠lol
I very much agree here*~ I originally suggested we hold off on guidelines for unofficial videos mostly because I felt I was singlehandedly holding up the whole guideline for it. I didnât want to push out guidance on official videos just for that, but I donât mind discussing it now that thereâs actual potential for discussion
*tho as mentioned above, Iâd favor crediting the video creator as the release artist, leaving the track and recording artist as the music artist