Hi! There seems to be a ton of different views on how MusicBrainz should do video releases. This thread is meant as a very slow but methodical way of working through all the different parts of the topic we need to decide until we have an accepted way of doing video that annoys everyone a little bit but hopefully we can all live with.
This first post is where parts we actually agree on (or I make a final call on) will live:
THE VIDEO GUIDELINES
Nothing to see here yet.
First point of contention that needs agreeing, and I think itās far from the easiest but probably the most basic to move on, is:
What should qualify as a video release
Expected outcome
Releases of music in video form, such as music videos and concert recordings, are allowed in MusicBrainz as long as they fulfill the following conditions:
anything not quoted from above, I agree with and have nothing to add~
I believe there are several stores that sell music videos, I know specifically Bugs! does (only available in Korea tho), and maybe Bandcamp in some circumstances? Iāve seen videos on Bandcamp, but havenāt gotten them in the download, soā¦ 
(they might only be included with a purchase, not for free? I dunnoā¦)
I believe most of these should be allowed, save for maybe video chats (tho I have added karaoke livestreams before, see the live broadcast releases for Nanashi Mumei. video chats could count as interviews in some cases?). that said, I donāt mind any of the second point here being excluded from getting releases (unless thereās no official music video for the recording, for example miCometās version of Animal, the first example below)
Iāve added far too many of these to count, but hereās some examples selected at semi-random
)I donāt know that Iād typically add these myself (itās a lot of work to track them down), but Iād consider these to be equivalent to live bootlegs, and should be treated the same way. Iāve previously added some such releases too (both using the video title)
also adding unofficial videos in this section
I would count these too for the recording release date, but I have no idea how to best enter such releases; what status or medium type or whatnot. Iād imagine there is some sort of release event for music videos and some way they were distributed to the TV stations (at least in the days of MTV), but Iāve yet to find any details of how that worked. that said, Iāve added a few releases for these too:
This subject is huge and is going to meander down main paths and tentaclesā¦ 
Promo videos for singles are interesting. These do often appear as Recordings on āEnhanced CDā singles. Or Compilation CD\DVDs.
Random Example of Single: https://musicbrainz.org/release/f4facae7-301d-4a6b-adad-0a651cbcb009
Random Example of Compilation: https://musicbrainz.org/release/df598639-9e5a-3e6c-97ce-71fb3842e6a4
The video on the single naturally gets a date that aligns to the release date. The latter gets release dates of the compilation many years later. No way to note its actual release date.
Most of these videos can be found on YouTube, so could also have been added as Standalone Recordings or linked to the above recordings.
What is puzzling is - what Medium would we add a 1990s video as? It is certainly interesting to document its existence as it was used as a promotional tool. Originally it would have not been on ādigital mediumā. They were broadcast to us on TV. I guess they were given to MTV \ Top of the Pops \ etc as a VHS tape. We get to see them years later because someone ripped them from their copy of a TV show and dropped them on YouTube. Some way of noting Original Release Date will be useful.
I feel a promo video for a single seems most naturally to want to live as a Release in the same Release Group as the single. That is what it is a video of. A type of āPromo Videoā would be useful?
What I would not want to see in that same Single Release Group is some home karaoke video. Or yet another amateur lyrics video. The amateur stuff has a place, but I think needs to be separated away into the creator of the video as artist. There needs to be a separation of Official from Covers\Remix\Amateur releases.
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Also - a Release Group Type for videos would be useful. DVDs of Concerts or Interviews currently get an āOtherā RG as they donāt really have a clear home under an Artist. An RG for pure video releases would be handy.
I know it doesnāt have many fans, but if weāre going for consistency these should probably follow the broadcast style guidelines:
e.g. āIf you donāt know how or if it was distributed, only that it was aired, leave the format blank (as well as the release date).ā
And the original broadcast date is stored in the title as āYYYY-MM-DD:ā
Itās not ideal, but I have gotten used to it to be honest.
I almost added the word ābroadcastā to my waffle. A promo video clipped from TV from an old VHS and uploaded to YouTube to share is not much different to a show recorded from the radio to cassette and uploaded as an MP3. Broadcast RG makes sense as the recording can already be ticked as āvideoā.
But sometimes it can be real vague as to where someone got that promo video of āVideo Killed the Radio Starā from. The original source will be long gone by the time it is on YouTube, but we know the release date will match the single (or the week before).
I would think a promo video for āVideo Killed the Radio Starā should be in with the Single RG it is is promoting: Release group āVideo Killed the Radio Starā by Buggles - MusicBrainz
An interview about the release of that video would need a new Release Group which seems to fit as a Broadcast RG.
I am hoping to get into the āwhat RG should things be inā as a separate, future step, for what itās worth 
Same for āshould we add typesā, etc. For now, letās think āwhat should be in at all, and what should notā.
In a similar way, donāt think āwhat does fit the current schemaā, think āwhat seems like it should belong in MusicBrainzā. Schemas can be amended (we can have a decision that we will allow X part of the stuff only after a schema change if need be).
My view of this section: I agree with most of these things being in MB as a video release (even if some, like videos for music TV, need some work later on to decide how exactly they should be entered).
There are two parts Iām still unsure about:
Live shows. Something like this seems like it should be in MB, but I still cannot decide if as a bootleg release or as a recording. (Iām assuming itās unauthorized, anyway - if not, then something like this but unauthorized!) I guess a one-track bootleg release following bootleg guidelines would make sense, but in any case, for now letās stick to ārelease, recording or not at allā.
Additional videos other than a music video / lyric video / live show. Something like a YouTube short with a small song preview, a 10 second TikTok promo, etc. In general, it kinda feels to me those do not really qualify as something Iād expect to see when looking for āmusical video content by this artistā and I would either skip them entirely for MusicBrainz or at most add them as standalone recordings. Something like song-long āvisualizersā (which seems to be a growing trend at least in some genres) is also something Iām unsure about - some such as this even star the artist and seem almost like a āmusic video liteā while others such as this are basically just background for an audio file.
I think any release is a release, with a certain date and with cover art. I also see how sometimes a sobg is relesed on youtube without actual video and 3 days later on spotify with a new album cover and of course new release date. Music brains can help make sense of which came when and where, but only if I have a place to store both release dates, both album arts.
Thinking ahead:
I think we best focus on adding types. Covert art type thumbnail. And video types to indicate āactual music videoā ājust sound as a videoā āon screen lyrics with singingā ākareoke (on screen lyrics no singing/instrumental)ā
Edit:
Any release which is the entire work, with possibly some additions or omissions, is a recording if that same work. And if released on youtube is a release of a recording of a work. We could cut it of at the release veing an offical release, on a channel which is associated with the artist
One could say that fan recordings of live events ate just recordings, there is nothing official anout their release moment or thumbnail. So you could say those dont have a significance as releases, just as recordings of a work at an event and with a youtube url for example.
I guess I already mentioned this above (more answering the below), but I believe these should be bootleg releases. whether theyāre in the same release groups as bootleg audio releases of the same show or not, Iām fine either way. perhaps @IvanDobsky has an opinion on this tho?
I will counter that point with this: we have bootleg (i.e. unofficial) release guidelines specifically for live bootleg releases, and I think itās very reasonable to count live video bootlegs under these same (or similar) guidelines
answering these points individually:
song previews, short promos, etc on the one hand, I donāt know that these are significant enough to count as a releaseā¦ on the other hand, it might be nice to document these too. Iām reminded of the time Adam Neely reharmonized a song months before it was released based on one of these videos (not that this happens often, but something to keep in mind)
visualizers I would probably count as releases with their own video recording. these videos are quite common in the areas I work (specifically EDM, brony, and furry music). while Iāve previously tried to draw a line between āis this a video or just a fancy audio recording with a little bit of animationā, Iām thinking anything official (from artist or label) should have an official video release, and Iām also fine with unofficial videos like this (Iāve got no examples, but Iām sure they exist) getting a bootleg release of some sort
on that note, I also want to call out another type of video I think should be included as releases in some way: fan made music videos (PMVs, AMVs, and more). some examples:
as said, Iād count all of these as releases in some form. perhaps we could do something similar to the remix guidelines for these?
Someone asked an opinion of meā¦ So I busk a reply. 
(You are talking to a collector of concert bootlegs)
MusicBrainz allow uploads of an audience audio recording of a show as a āLive, Bootlegā. If someone has been at a concert with their tape recorder in a jacket this is legit MusicBrainz data. Concert gets to tape, then either CD or FLAC. Usually split into tracks. An āAlbum + Liveā Release Group with a Release set as āCD or Digital Audioā set to āBootlegā type.
So a video of the same gig seems just as legit. Someone tapes that whole gig on their phone or better camera and uploads it - sounds like we have another Live release Group. Difference is I doubt they will split it into tracks. So not really an album (?).
Yes I would put that video in the same RG as the audio. It is the same thing, just different medium. We gather different bootlegs of the same gig in the same RG, so seems logical to me to pop the Video in the same RG too.
But Iād be fussy about qualityā¦ which is where it is hard to know where a line is drawn.
Now a clip that is just one trackā¦ not sure if Iād bother. A dozen people at a gig waving phones around grabbing badly cropped images of a track from the back row with heads in the wayā¦ not sure if Iād bother.
We canāt document everything that hits YouTube or this would be called TubeBrainz
An amateur fan made home video needs to be kept out of the original artists discographies. Otherwise there will be a mess and drown some artists in noise. I like being able to go into an artist to find THEIR officially sanctioned work. Fan made stuff needs just a relationship link and not to appear in any official page for the original artist.
Not against Fan made stuff, but keep it under the Fanās name. Yes it is kind of a remix, but should not be treated with equal reverence to an officially sanctioned remix the artist was involved in. Fan homages can be interesting, but not to the same level as the original artistās work. Some how we need to be able to filter it.
If it must be under the original artist, then we have DJ-Mix, Mixtape/Street then maybe add a āFan Mixā. Give 'em a section to keep them out of the main stream. I donāt want to see someoneās home brew remix appear in an official Single RG.
And while we are talking YT - some random dude reacting to a video of another dude reviewing a fan made video of a trackā¦ Nope. 
It needs some level of actual originality. Not just a ālook at meā vid.
The above is just some random personal opinion from my head. 
I donāt know if Iād bother documenting everything like this either, save for some of my favorite artists or interesting recordings*, but I donāt think we should exclude these if someone does want to document these
*these are the two cases Iāve added such releases, already linked in post 4. Five Iron Frenzy is a band Iāve done a ton of work on, and I thought it was interesting that Caramell performed Caramelldansen so long after theyād stopped existing 
thatās kinda how I propose we handle it (tho itās a bit early to be talking about this here); release artist is the video creator and the track and/or recording artist is the artist featured in the music video. I also think if we do allow these in the database, we should also add an āofficialā checkbox to the Music Video relationships, but weāre getting ahead of ourselves
(after typing the following up, I realized thatās not exactly what you were talking about, but Iād still like to make the point)
you raise an interesting point here. I donāt know if the guidelines should necessarily try and make judgements on quality (at least in general like this), and some reaction videos can be quite interesting, especially if youāre a fan of the guy doing the reacting. you do have people like Jimmy Someguy just sitting there not contributing (Jacksfilms did a great reaction to one such guy, I think youād love it~), but youāve also got guys like my dadās favorite, Jamel_AKA_Jamal actually pausing the video and speaking his mind about the music, the video, etc. (my favorite is his reaction to Hocus Pocus by Focus)
whether these should be included or not, I think they could fit quite well in MusicBrainz, but I also understand the sentiment that it is a bit of a stretch to include these. consider this one vote towards reaction videos being releases or recordings (likely listed under the reactor, not the original artist)
Starting backwards becauseā¦
Dude talking about music is not music. Yeah, may be interesting, but it is just some random dude talking toot. Need TubeBrainz for that.
MusicBrainz should stay focused on the music.
If we have a dude talking about music why not a dude talking about trainsā¦ but then I guess MB has podcasts. I just still think this needs a wedge to keep them separate from Official stuff some how. The podcast is under the name of the podcaster. Separated from their subject.
I still want to be able to ask āgive me all the official Five Iron Frenzy videosā and see official stuff without needing to way through the fanboys.
A video with the actual artists being interviewed - yeah, that is the artist. Jon Bob saying why he loves the bandā¦ Mehā¦
Official for an official release from an actual artist. But something different needed for a Fan release about an artist. Fans aināt official, they are fans and removed from the original. Though they also not really bootleg either.
I think this whole āfan madeā side is interesting but drifting away from the real meaning of MusicBrainz documenting Music.
All I ask is let me easily filter it.
Above is just personal opinionā¦ one day Iāll learn to stop posting this waffle 
100% agree with you here~ in addition, Iād love to be able to ask, āwhat stuff has been created using Five Iron Frenzyās musicā (not just videos, but mashups, remixes, and more)
I feel Iāve been talking too much here, Iāll try and leave some space for other editors to talk~ (also pinging video editors I know who havenāt weighed in yet, @chaban, @wtfislibrious, @fmera ,and @Antiguastrea in particular, if yāall have anything you wanna add~ might also share this thread on some video-related edit notes in the next few days~)
These videos should just be linked as reviews, IMO, there is a relationship for that.
honestly, I didnāt remember that was a thingā¦ thatās probably a better solution for these reaction videos than adding the videos to MusicBrainz, all weād need is a video checkbox and a change to the autoselect to allow the relationship on YouTube (and other video hosting site) links
Should we count a video that looks like a demo for an official music video, but it wasnāt officially released?
are you talking like an early version of an officially released video, or something else? would you mind sharing your particular example?
Yes, it is. Mora still sell music videos.
This is where Iād draw the line. Iād argue that lyric videos and visualizers are still music videos, just not in the classic way weāre used to think of them. Theyāre still videos where the music is the focus and are used to advertise the song in the same way as a regular music video. But taking any non-music related videos uploaded in an artistās YouTube channel and adding them as a release goes beyond the point of MB.
Is a video of an artist coming out a release? (or even a recording for that matter) Is a video of an artist apologizing for some stupid thing they did a release? Probably not, right? Imo, anything that is music-focused (not just music-related), meaning, where the music is still the focal point of the recording (music videos, dance videos lyric videos, visualizers, live performances) could categorically be a release if it fits all the other options above. So basically, anything that is part of the artistās body of work. Anything else is not.
This can also be problematic, and it kinda already is with bootleg audio releases. Iāve seen users creating self-made compilations as releases. So I feel like the main problem here is not video-related. Itās the bootleg guidelines that need better sorting.
This to me is just a video recording being played on TV. Not an actual release. But there were plenty of video cassettes containing music videos that either acted as promotional releases or official ones.