Release and recording name guidelance

[Libra]

So-o-o, I’m here again with the same theme. I use YouTube as my main streaming platform, and there are too many recordings with unstructured names. For example, this: “CAGMO — Attack on Titan Symphony — YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T 進撃の巨人 - Симфония Атака Титанов”. This name includes:

• CAGMO - the orchestra name
• Attack on Titan - the name of the anime
• Symphony - type of cover
• YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T - name of the original track
• 進撃の巨人 - the name of the anime in Japanese
• Симфония - type of cover again, but in Russian
• Атака Титанов - the name of the anime in Russian

I just don’t really understand what I should do. For now, I only save the track title (because they are usually singles) and add the full name as an alias that starts at the same time as the release was published. However, this solution has some issues with data saving in MusicBrainz.

For instance, what should I choose in the “Language” field of releases? According to the tip next to this field:

The language attribute should be set to the language used for the release title and track titles. It should not be set to the language the lyrics are written in, nor to the language used for other extra information on the cover.

So, I should choose “Multiple languages” and “Multiple scripts.” However, this may be confusing for other editors, as they will see only English:

Not everyone will check the available aliases, and even then, without looking at the editing history or recording links, it’s still impossible to understand why these aliases were added and what they mean.

I see two possible solutions for now:

1. I can add the names as they are, but as far as I can see, other people usually don’t do that and prefer to clear information like “guitar cover” or “someone’s version,” etc. If this is an option, it should be included in the guidelines. The style guidance for titles states: “Some cases of additional information that is not part of the title and also not intended to distinguish the track should be removed.”
2. I can set the language to a cleaned version of their names (which I am currently doing, because of guidelines), but this feels strange because the releases have original names in multiple languages, which can confuse editors who want to edit or find your release/recording later.

Ideally, the best solution for me would be the ability to add types for aliases, as I described here. However, since this or any other similar option is not currently available, I need a definitive decision that I can use until such a feature exists. I just need help choosing which option is better

[IvanDobsky]

@Libra

Not everyone will check the available aliases

An important feature of the aliases is they will match in a search. So if someone searches for this track using that YouTube title, then they should find it.

[derat]

Except if they do a tag lookup instead of an indexed search, apparently:

SEARCH-731

[Aszazin]

@Libra

CAGMO — Attack on Titan Symphony — YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T 進撃の巨人 - Симфония Атака Титанов”

I’d probably enter as:
Artist: CAGMO
Title: Attack on Titan Symphony: YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T
Language English

The Russian and Japanes don’t provide complete titles, only a reference to the Anime and the fact it’s a symphonic performance of music form the anime. As such I’d regard it as side information for the Annotation.

If there are more tracks from “Attack on Titan Symphony”, I would create a work where the subworks are part of. That larger work can have the “進撃の巨人” as Japanese alias, and " *Симфония Атака Титанов" as Russian alias of the larger work (entered as work title)

Entering the Japanese & Russian text as Search hint to the recording/release might also be a good thing.

On platforms like youtube, “titles” might contain all kind of non-title info. It’s subject to interpretation what belongs where, and might be entered a bit different, depending on who does the job.
I’d not exclude/include data purely for search purposes, except when entered as search hint.

[aerozol]

@Libra

So, I should choose “Multiple languages” and “Multiple scripts.” However, this may be confusing for other editors, as they will see only English:

If I’m understanding you correctly, and the guidelines correctly: If you’ve removed the other languages from the title, leaving only English, then the language should be set to English. Same for latin script

[Libra]

@IvanDobsky

An important feature of the aliases is they will match in a search. So if someone searches for this track using that YouTube title, then they should find it.

Yeah, this is the reason why I add them.

@Aszazin

I’d probably enter as:
Artist: CAGMO
Title: Attack on Titan Symphony: YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T
Language English

The Russian and Japanese don’t provide complete titles, only a reference to the Anime and the fact it’s a symphonic performance of music form the anime. As such I’d regard it as side information for the Annotation.

There are so many questions. Why one language should be preferred over another, especially in cases where both names are include all information as here ([КАВЕР] Крути - Еще одну | Feat @TheChalkeaters One more Pull | Genshin Impact (Геншин Импакт)). Or why can’t it be a mix of languages (“YouSeeBIGGIRL/T:T. Симфония Атака Титанов”, because mainly it’s symphony orchestra in Russia). Why was the decision made to save the anime title and type of the track in English version? The type can be saved in “work type” in MB and the name of the anime can be stored in work disambiguation/annotation or not stored at all, relying on the first artist or lyrics for identification.. Finally why should this info even be cleared and not saved as is? Why was this decision made?

@Aszazin

Entering the Japanese & Russian text as Search hint to the recording/release might also be a good thing.

I always enter the full name as alias, but thanks for the suggestion to add them in different languages too. Maybe I will start to use it.

@Aszazin

On platforms like youtube, “titles” might contain all kind of non-title info. It’s subject to interpretation what belongs where, and might be entered a bit different, depending on who does the job.

This is my main point. I understand that this depends on who makes the job, so it’s OK if I create my personal project. But a community project should have a more or less consistent understanding about how it should be added/edited. Otherwise, the result of this behavior will be chaotic data editing, because everyone will have their own different vision which can sometimes be too divergent

@aerozol

If I’m understanding you correctly, and the guidelines correctly:

The guidelines don’t provide that. They only propose to add the language of release and titles, but don’t specify if it should be based on the original release/track titles or cleared version that I add to MB.

@aerozol

If you’ve removed the other languages from the title, leaving only English, then the language should be set to English. Same for latin script

This is exactly what I did until that moment. I cleared all info except for the release/track name (which is basically in one language even in covers) and added the information about release/track title and script based on it. I made this decision, because I think that in over >99% cases it is sufficient to distinguish using the artist name, release year, and disambiguation fields, but for some reason the guidelines have an exception for ‘distinguishing parts’ without providing the full list of these exceptions or at least specific examples:

Additional information on a release or track name that is not part of its main title, but intended to distinguish it from different releases or tracks with the same main title (such as version/remix names or live recording info), should be entered in parentheses after the main title. Featured artists should not be entered like extra title information, but as part of the artist credits. See the featured artists guideline.

but

Some cases of additional information that is not part of the title and also not intended to distinguish the track should be removed:

• “Song (bonus track)”: just “Song”
• “Song (new song)”: just “Song”
• “Song (The Beatles cover)”: just “Song”, with the recording linked to the appropriate The Beatles work with the recording of relationship (and the “cover” attribute).

There are no explanations in any of these cases regarding why and when I should save or remove these parts from titles. Except for covers, OK, I know now how I can add them. And I think the guidelines are not enough proper on this theme. So I just wanted to check if there is any other or additional consensus that I should know about and if I am doing everything correctly according to them.

[aerozol]

You should suggest specific guideline updates, if you want to see change.

@Libra

The guidelines don’t provide that. They only propose to add the language of release and titles, but don’t specify if it should be based on the original release/track titles or cleared version that I add to MB.

If anyone is editing titles to the point where they don’t consider the MB tracklist to be canonical enough to be used for those fields, then they need to strongly reconsider the titles they are adding to MB.

In any case, the guideline is most certainly referencing the MB tracklist - especially if there are different possible interpretations. Or it makes the fields useless for tagging and pseudo releases/translations.