Quality control - help me get these recordings credited correctly


#1

Can someone help check my edits? Bit of Noobie Hand Holding being requested here.

I am trying to fill in more of the details from my CD about the recordings. I haven’t edited many “relationships” so am not confident as to my results. I also can’t work out a couple of things.

This is a Syd Barrett release which includes two separate live BBC sessions. I am trying to make sure it is clear that the two sessions are different. Trying to stop someone merging all of Syd’s “Dominoes” versions into one.

I am basing everything on the cover notes. I have scanned and uploaded all the images from my copy of the CD.

Questions:

  • Have I made any obvious mistakes?
  • What about the location? These are on the rear cover using the name of the BBC Radio show they were recorded for. So I selected BBC Studios and then just changed the name. Would “BBC Top Gear” and “BBC Bob Harris” look better?
  • How do I add the Publisher details? “Published by Lupus Music Co. Ltd except 5 by Rock Music Co. Ltd” When I try and select Label \ Publisher I get warnings about it being depreciated and it won’t let me set it.
  • How do I link up the tracks “Love Song” and “Two of a Kind” to the correct versions?
  • Is there a better way of linking this to John Peel’s Sessions and Bob Harris’ radio show?
  • What else should I pull from the cover and\or book?

Come on and give my entry here a good kicking. I’m sure I can get more of this right.

Thanks :slight_smile:


#2

Here is another area I am struggling in.

How do I get the first five tracks to link to this release properly?

Why is Terrapin not linking? How do I correct that? I can’t work out how to get the correct releases to line up, but some how fluked it correctly on the rest of them.

Puzzled :confused: So I’ve tried merging release groups…


#3

It seems like you have run in to some of the common problems related to relationships that are printed on the cover art. They are usually not very verbose and it’s often unclear which recordings that they apply to. You often have to look for more information about location, date, etc, on fan-sites or wikipedia.

Obvious mistakes: I noticed that Gilmour plays “bass guitar, organ and guitar” on all recordings. That is probably not correct unless he switched between the instruments in the middle of the song or if the recordings have been overdubbed. Listen to the recordings and remove the relationships that are wrong.

You can add recording disambiguations if it’s not obvious if the “Dominoes” recordings are different (for example if the length is similar). See https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Recording#Live_recordings for more info. Also make sure that the edits are the same before merging live recordings (same length does not always mean same recording).

The “recorded at [place]” should in this case be the studio where it was recorded and I would move the show (Top Gear, etc) to an “event”. The recording-publisher relationship has been replaced with release-publisher or work-publisher (I can’t remember which one). You can also add “liner-notes” and “cover art design” relationships to the release level.

I’m not sure what you mean with “How do I link up the tracks “Love Song” and “Two of a Kind” to the correct versions?”. If you mean “works” then they are added on the right side of https://musicbrainz.org/release/fc5e8a0b-4506-431f-a74e-08910eb874c0/edit-relationships (the “Add related work” button).

About “Terrapin”: the release that you added the recording-relationships to is not linked to that specific recording. I see that you already have entered an merge-recording edit which will solve that problem.


#4

When it is not indicated on which track the musician performed this that instrument, we link the whole release instead.

Oh but here we need trackset MBS-6680… once again.


#5

Thanks @joiletjake I will now work through the points you bring up. I’ll go and clean up the edits shortly based on your observations.

I only have this CD to refer to. Checks at the more obvious Wikipedia \ Discogs is not bringing up too much more info. Though I may chase the John Peel sources via a different route.

@jesus2099 This CD is two separate performances, so I would think your “whole release” comment fits how I have attempted to allocated the artists to instruments. I’ll see if I can separate out what Gilmour is doing on the separate tracks, but that is gonna be a little tricky. Any excuse to listen to the albums :smile:

The recording merges I am doing are based on the fact Syd only did the one Peel Session. So it makes sense to me that these are all the same tracks.

I’ll see if I can do a better job on the “recorded at [place]”

Trying to link the “works” I am getting confused as to how to find the correct work in that awkwardly small list box. I can find the correct “recording” if I look in MB in the normal way, but couldn’t work out how to transfer what I found to that list. This is why there is now a merge for Terrapin as I think I linked that to the wrong work initially.

Glad I haven’t made any obvious howlers though. Will return to this with a bigger PokeyStick™ in the coming hours…


#6

Now I am being caught out by the seven day delays when trying to correct my own errors :disappointed:

So instead of cleaning it up, I now have a bigger mess.

I’ll do a bit more on this tonight, and tomorrow. And then I’ll be back in a week to untangle the mess that double editing is causing.

What I means is I can’t work out how to find the correct works for these two tracks. Notice how I linked everything else up, but these two I can’t get it to link up. “Love Song” is too common a track name, so I can’t work out how to find Syd’s track in that list.


#7

Yeah the work search is one of the worst designed parts of MB. The work is on the list but probably on page 5 or something like that. You can copy/paste MB urls into the search fields. So simply go to https://musicbrainz.org/artist/12327d75-47d5-45d9-84c2-3760b9210c17/works and copy the link to “Love Song” and then paste it in the search field. I can’t find “Two of a Kind” so in that case you have create a new work.


#8

The only way to be realistic would be to have two tracksets and to set relationships to each.
Setting to all recordings of a trackset is not really good… but we don’t have tracksets yet.


#9

For the location, my inclination would be to leave it blank unless you have some specific knowledge or documentation as to where those shows were recorded during the time period in question.


#10

Getting the exact studio should not be too hard. The Peel Sessions generally happened at Maida Vale. Bob Harris is also likely to use a regular studio for his shows. I’ll go digging deeper to get better details for these.

This is also why I have delayed adding Disambiguation notes as I want a clear text for (live, 1970-02-24: BBC Top Gear, Maida Vale Studio, London) or something along those lines. I’ll be getting my Peel Sessions book off the shelf, and also looking at a few other MB entries for the best looking solutions.

Updated to add: Haha, this is Floyd related so, as expected, there are some excessive details out there. I now have the exact studios for both of these:

http://pinkfloydarchives.com/TourDSB.htm


#11

You’ve lost me. I am still getting used to the basic features, so am lost as to what a trackset is. Especially as I think you are saying these don’t exist yet so aren’t relevant… (Hehe - don’t confuse me more :joy:)

When I get a Disambiguation Text clear in my head I’ll be adding them to the tracks. That will help make it clearer that these are two separate sessions. Tracks 1-5 are clearly separate to Tracks 6-8. Especially as Tracks 1-5 appear together on other releases whereas Tracks 6-8 have come from someone’s copy of a copy of a recording from the radio.

With some careful work I want to make this quickly clear for anyone looking at this release.

I am also cheating a bit here and using this Release to act as training for me to get my head around “Works”, “Recordings”, “Release” and the differences.


#12

Slowly getting there… and learning plenty along the way.

Now have the correct Recorded At studio in place for everything. (Once the pesky outstanding edits clear…)

Made sure the Works are all English Songs.

Trying to work out how to add these were broadcast on the Radio. Can’t see how to make that an “event”.

It is a little confusing listening to the tracks to try and split up who is playing what. On Gigalo Aunt I am sure I can here multiple guitars, along with the bass, and an organ at the end… Maybe Dave is playing the organ with his feet - lol.


#13

Nice! You can find events at the top menu at musicbrainz.org -> Editing -> Add event (at the bottom of the list). The interface is not very intuitive, I still haven’t been able to figure out how the “setlist” feature works. You can link the event to Barrett, the recordings and the BBC studio by using relationships. You can also add the radio host as a “host”.

As mentioned, it’s possible that the recordings have been overdubbed (which seems reasonable considering that it’s Syd Barrett). It’s also possible that it actually is “bass pedals + guitar” and then he switched to “bass pedals + organ”. You should be able to hear the difference between the two. Bass pedals are just the basic notes while bass guitar notes sounds similar to a guitar notes.


#14

The whole album is sitting on YouTube:

I assume I should not link to that as it is clearly a dodgy upload. Always makes me wonder about these kind of complete uploads of clearly copyrighted albums.

I’m doing more back to back listening of this. Only 20mins long.

It is also one of those places where “drums” does mean “drums” and not a drumset. There are Bongos and other Percussion in the background. So I think I’ll be changing those credits before I have completed this task. (Are bongos percussion? Or is he playing drums and percussion… the fun of language… and no, I refuse to call it a memembranophone)

Some tracks like Effervescing Elephant are clearly just Syd and his guitar.

The way reviews of this are written it sounds like it was recorded as a proper live session without overdubbing. It wouldn’t surprise me if during “Gigalo Aunt” Dave put the guitar down and played with his organ briefly.

I’m not a guitar player, so don’t know enough of the effects of pedals. At some times I am sure I can here two guitars and a bass… but that can’t make sense with the number of performers. Unless this is where “bass pedals” can come in? Which would then allow Dave to play three instruments in the one track.

I’m gonna listen a few more times and keep taking notes until I am happy. Only then will I start chopping out the credits as I don’t want to keep deleting and adding and deleting and confuddling.

I’m going to go look at Events now and see if I can add in the three Radio Show dates these were played on. They are very relevant in the history of these tracks. The recordings are specifically done for the Radio Shows, and then only available on that night of the original show… and then lost deep in personal recordings of those broadcasts.


#15

I don’t mean effect pedals that you plug in to a guitar or a bass. I mean these type of bass pedals that most commonly are used by organ or keyboard players: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_pedals. But, I quickly listened to the songs and it’s definitely a bass guitar. It seems more and more likely that some of the instruments were overdubbed, unless, as you mention, there were more unknown musicians there. You can hear five different instruments at the same time on the first “Baby Lemonade”.


#16

Bongos are bongos , but they’re likely credited as “percussion” on a lot of album covers. “Percussion” seems like a safe catch-all if you’re unsure.


#17

Tracksets would be a way to be able to say bass is played by Bob and John on tracks 1-5 out of 11 total, without saying that both of them played bass on all recordings.

Because when we have credits that we don’t know on which track they actually occur (it often happens), we set them at release level.

But when a release tracklist is made of several sets (like main album, then bonus tracks. or like album A then Live bonus Album, etc. it often happens), we woudl need an intermediary element, larger than tracks, smaller than tracklist: THE TRACKSET. :slight_smile:


#18

Okay. So I did understand you. :grin: You are trying to hijack my question to get support for a new feature… I’m still getting used to the current abilities. :grin: