Hi,
If an artist is an eponymous member of a group (“without which it wouldn’t exist”), the artist is necessarily an original member. Are both attributes to be set?
(I’ve got an artist with bot “eponymous” and “original eponymous” and don’t know what is correct)
Tick both if he is original member and eponymous. I assume he is also also founder of some of those groups?
I try and date these when known. It also helps when a band line up changes a lot.
In line up changes it can be useful as “original member” leaves and returns as “Member” for a different time period.
I always looks at these questions as if I am running a database query from outside. “Who were original band members?” “How many eponymous artists?”. As you can’t always assume that the eponymous member was an original member then I would tick everything that applies.
I can’t think of an example now, but there are bands who rename themselves after the famous person who joins later and then becomes the lead of the band. This would be a case of eponymous but not original.
So yeah - tick the lot. And add as many dates as possible.
I can’t think of an example either. And I suppose there is no such thing. But in case something like that happens, I will tick both. (And I will add dates if available - I’ve just started with editing artist relationships of JLP)
Thanks for reply!
EDIT: … and it’s not possible by definition: “it wouldn’t exist” without the artist! If the name giving artist joins later, the artist is neither an original, nor an eponymous member.
EDIT 2: Although by dictionary definition, it is well possible:
The only time I can see an eponymous member not being original is if it was a family band.
The Smiths, started as 3 siblings. As they aged, the other siblings joined. The older siblings dropped out. Their kids became members. Now 50 years later, we still have The Smiths, but all of the originals are dead and it is the great grandchildren performing.
So, no, I would not add original with eponymous (except in that rare instance).
Side note - the other issue I have with ‘original’, is when someone re-joins a band. I feel that you can only be original once. Your second tenure is not original.
There is such a thing. I just can’t remember an example now. Bands change name during their time. It is not unusual for one personality within a band to become bigger than the band. When that happens the promoters start putting that name on the posters as well. Suddenly the band is know as “lead singer and the band”.
… and the lead singer would have been not an original member of this band, hmm… - but I’m already convinced by the family band example and have added “original” to original eponymous members.
(But then I started adding dates to the members of The Mothers of Invention and this will probably consume the rest of the evening. Some members are probably false: e.g. Peter Wolf played with Zappa in the 1980s, but I don’t think he was a member of The Mothers, …)
But then the question becomes -
Is the official name of the band “X”, or is it “Person and X”.
I mean, I can call them “Person and X”, I could even call them “Jellyfish with a purple hat”, it doesn’t make it true.
Why not? If there are cases where it is not the same thing, it is consequent to add original to all original members.
There are certainly such cases, like the bluegrass band Russell Moore and IIIrd Tyme Out who started as just IIIrd Tyme Out. Their website clearly shows Russell Moore as part of the official name (although the MB artist entry has yet to be converted).
In this case, though, Moore is both an original member, and an eponymous member (now), but arguably not an “original eponymous” member since his name wasn’t part of the original band name.
Both. Depends on the band - but that is a topic for another thread.
I feel that eponymous and original are going to be one and the same on all but a few fringe cases.
Think of it like when we are crediting labels.
X founded Y. The start and end date box are available simply because it is easier on the programmers. How does one stop founding a company. Founding a company is a one time thing, it shouldn’t even need a date because that date is listed elsewhere. Ownership of a company (which is implied by founding) can end, but not the founding. Do we even need to mark that someone owns something when they founded it and there are no other owners.
So, to me, just because the boxes are available doesn’t mean they are to be used.
So you think it should only be added, if it makes a difference? I’m a bit undecided and it’s really rare, but if both are checked it will endure in the future (…when Jon Anderson and Jean-Luc Ponty’s grandchildren will follow in the footsteps of their ancestors and revive the Anderson Ponty Band. 
)
Of course, and all which refer to a momentary event (founded, renamed, …) have to be set to the same date for start and end, but I think they should be set. I was lazy with dates earlier on, but even seemingly redundant dates are often helpful. Not all the dates show up in every view. It would be up to the programmers to provide these, but it’s really complex.
watch out for Jefferson Hairpie Plane Starship fired drunk hired new lead singer
marty grace mickey kanter we built this starship and so on they sound like Marshall Tucker Band sometimes
Stick to Bob Wills he’s safe and he plays fiddle
Got one.
Martha didn’t join until a year after the initial band line-up. Band went through a number of names. So this one has Martha as Eponymous, but not Original.
(Okay - also confused by the band being previously known as The Del-Phis and The Phells. Same band, but different enough to be separate MB entity…)
so what! Her name is there because she is the star
Martha may be the star, but wasn’t in the original line-up. So can’t really be named “original”, but they did rename the band after her.
It’s that rare situation where this is the best thing for community to violate rule.
another example would be reinstating death penalty by hanging when we get our hands on that mass murderer Putin. It’s best for the planet to hang him by the neck until dead. Then we go back to being peaceful civilization and rebuild $1 trillion worth of damage in Ukraine. We will rebuild that country in record time.
Not really. The language of “original” is what you are attempting to change. Original is original. If the band was there before she joined it should be acknowledged. It shows the effect she had if they then renamed the band after her.
Re: politics - would be nice to keep that out of here. This is one of the few oasis away from the bad sides of the world. (I am not Russian - mine is a joke name)
haha my ancestors are Ukranian! but I am American all the way