Need help sorting out problems with a 40-CD Beethoven box set

Hello all,

I’m working on this (green) Beethoven box set:

From the editing history it seems that this release entry has been around for quite a while, it shares its release group with another box (let’s call that one the purple box).
I own the green box, catalog number and barcode are identical to the numbers specified for this release. I’ve just uploaded a pile of cover scans since it hasn’t had any yet.
Looking more closely, however, it turns out that the tracks listings for at least three discs are different from my box set: #33, #34 and #39. The number of tracks on my discs does not coincide with the MusicBrainz listings, disc #39 has a complete different work ( Missa Solemnis, op. 123 vs. Christus am Ölberge, op. 85).

If I had to guess I’d say that the purple box has a slightly different mix of discs and these three discs were erraneously transferred to the track listing of the green box. But I can’t rule out that the label (Brilliant Classics) substituted some of the discs without changing the box’s barcode.
So my two questions are:

  1. Can one deduce from the editing history whether some editor actually had access to the green box and the current listing reflects his version? I’m out of my depth with that complicated editing history.
  2. How should I proceed? Edit the release so it reflects the contents of my box or add a new release?

Would be grateful for advice.

3 Likes

I think you should add a new release to the same release group and put in the edit notes that it is album in hand or something. you also should remove the album art from that one and add it to your own. that one that is there was made by a bot then others have come in and changed things. it would be hard to know what is right and what is not. you should still link the songs if they are the same length and name.

2 Likes

I’m away from home at present, and not in a position to research your question properly. But may I remark that yes, Brilliant do re-release their box sets, and when they do so, they may change some of the works in the compilation, and they sometimes retain a work but include a different recording of it.

I agree with @st3v3p about the correct approach.

4 Likes

Thanks, then I’ll wait a few days and then withdraw the cover scans and add another release with the same barcode and catalog number.

More detailed research shows that four discs in my version deviate from the current listing for the green box: #32, #33, #34 and #39. All other DiscIds were identical (except for 3 of the first discs that had none assigned, but works and performers seemed to be identical).

#39 is a good litmus test, since the current listing specifies it as having 5 tracks (Missa Solemnis) while my version has 18 tracks (Christus am Ölberge).
During an internet search I only found my variant:
amazon.com
allmusic.com
arkivmusic.com

I also tried to dig into the editing history, hoping to find a specific editor I could ask. But it is very convoluted, many edits concern the purple box, and I can’t find out where the green box release actually came into being.

1 Like

you dont need to wait for the scans to be accepted. all you do is cancel the edits go to my data then go to my open edits and cancel them

True, but that’s not the reason I’m waiting. Still hoping that somebody has concrete information about possible variants of the box set.

well they used these links to fix up the info according to the eddit notes


http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=59128

so with the looks of that info you should make a new release as they are not the same box set

That purple box is the second release in the release group we’re talking about:

It has another barcode and another catalog number, some discs are different, it has another physical size - and color (purple vs. green). That this release is different from my green box is not in dispute. It should have a separate release entry in MusicBrainz - and it has that already.

The crucial question is another: Has there actually been a green box with the discs #32, #33, #34 and #39 that are currently listed in the green box release? Because many of the edits seem to have been concerned with the purple box I can’t shake the suspicion that they were attached to the green box by accident.

1 Like

i do get what your saying but people have started adding the info from the purple box after the bot made it so it may as well be the purple one. thats y im saying make a new one to many people have come and added there own info to it now. ill see if @monxton one of the people that edited it will shed some light on it

iv seen this kind of thing in christen music as well a bot adds it but the info is wrong and the bot gives no details as to were it has come from

I note that one of the discs you identify as varying from your set (disc 33) has slightly different titles on the existing “purple” vs “green” boxes (ampersand vs comma separating the two opus numbers). The one on the green box looks to have been titled in https://musicbrainz.org/edit/11628062 by editor Traivor who commented in the edit note:

This is disc 33 of http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=43:…. Note, there is a newer, yellow version of this set on Amazon. I have the older blue box.

That would tend to support your guess that this was inadvertently copied from the purple (or “blue”) box to the green (“yellow”) one when the latter was merged (by @senax I believe) from separately entered discs. I don’t really think this is conclusive, though.

I have not used the ‘data quality’ setting before, but it seems like the existing green box might qualify for ‘low’ as “hard to prove”.

1 Like

I would edit the green release.

Then we know we have a 100% confirmed release on our hands (and with scans! :heart_eyes:). Or people vote against it, and you make a new one.

Worst case scenario, you’re wrong, someone notices, and adds another version with the different track order (that we can actually confirm the existence of).

It’s impossible to prove that something doesn’t exist, so if you’re not losing valuable data (for instance, edits to track order is trackable and reversible), please go for it imo. Otherwise we leave bad/unreliable data sticking around forever.

1 Like

In the end I’ve decided to follow aerozol’s advice and edit the current entry for the green box. I’ve documented the previous state in the edit note and offered to create a second release entry with the same barcode in case somebody says they have seen or know of a variant.

The corresponding edits are found here and can be voted upon (hint, hint, nudge, nudge). When (or if) they’ve gone through I’ll add the new DiscIds, some missing performer/work relationships etc.
The server presented me with an error message and refused to accept the edits for changing the media positions, but I hope that can be corrected later after the four old discs have been deleted.

Thanks to everybody for their well-reasoned recommendations. The reason I’m changing the existing release entry is that I’ve found no strong indication that any editor has actually seen this green box, and no evidence of its existence has shown up in a web search. And should a variant with the same barcode exist after all, a new release entry is easily created.

2 Likes

If you can find contact info for the label/publisher, it never hurts to shoot off a mail and ask whether they rereleased it with same looks/upc but different content.