I just came across two unusual release groups with Music Digital - MusicBrainz releases in the Die großen Meisterwerke der Oper - MusicBrainz series. Die Entführung aus dem Serail and Carmen both have separate releases for “Work Title, CD 1” and “Work Title, CD2” along with a pseudo-release combining both CDs. I was thinking of merging them, but maybe Music Digital is doing something funky and these are actually more like volumes released separately than CDs released together? @takerukoushirou do you have any more info about how these were released?
It is unusual to have CD 1 and CD 2 of a 2-CD set be entered as separate Release entitities in a Release Group. I would generally expect each Release entity to correspond to a separately-sold product. But I went looking at the first edits of release/8431 Carmen, CD 1. The original Add Release edit from 2020 by @takerukoushirou has an edit note which says,
CD on hand. CD 2 is a separate release with own catalog number and barcode.
That looks to me like the work of a diligent editor who is aware of the MusicBrainz guidelines, has access to good information, and is leaving a clue for future editors.
If someone gets the story of what the label did with these single-disc and 2-disc releases, it might be helpful to put it in the Annotation for each of the Releases in the Release Group. That would be a more visible clue for future editors.
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Yeah, I saw that too, but separate catalog numbers and barcodes often don’t mean separate releases. I think most of the multi-disc releases from before ~1990 or so that I’ve added had per-disc catalog numbers. Multiple barcodes seems rarer, but I think I’ve seen it in some box sets.
I was hoping there was some more information about how they were actually released, not just what was printed on them.
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Ooh, I found something. https://www.discogs.com/release/25433959-Various-Opera-DAmour is a 2 CD release from the same label:
Characteristics:
- Card board (to open at two sides)
- Two jewel case
- Barcode (Text, Box): 4 006408 248378
- Barcode (Text, CD 1): 4 006408 119340
- Barcode (Text, CD 2): 4 006408 119357
From the pictures, it looks like the catalog number 24 837/1 is on the box, and 11 934 and 11 935 are on the inner jewel cases.
So in MBz, that should be a single release for the box set sold as shown on Discogs. The part I don’t know is whether it was also sold as two separate jewel cases without the box. If it was, then there should be 3 releases, one for the box and one for each jewel case. If not, just the one for the box.
And of course, even if it were only ever released as a box set, it could have been split up and sold separately on the used market, which could make it harder to realize it was originally a box set.
Just by looking at the numbers I’d say this was released initially as two disks. Then a few years later reissued as a box set. I’ve seen that happen a lot.
If it was all at the same time then the barcodes numbers would be much closer to each other.
That could potentially make it three different Release Groups. But hard to guess, so I’d just document it as a boxset.
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4 006408 119340 and 4 006408 119357 are adjacent barcodes, because the last digit is the check digit. So at least the two CDs were probably released at the same time. I’d believe the box set was released later though.
That seems like an odd choice on the label’s part to do that with something like the two operas in the original post though. I’m not sure who’d really want to buy just the first or second half of an opera. But who knows, labels do odd things sometimes. Maybe this is a budget label that typically does box set compilations and has a standard workflow of releasing separate discs before the box set, whether it makes sense for that specific release or not.
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Yeah, exactly what I meant. As the jump from 11935 to 24837 is a big gap. You’d expect the boxset to be 11936.
I’ve seen a lot of budget releases who put out single discs, and then years later reissue as something “new” which is just a slip case around the older CDs. I expect if you study the labels output that this will not be the only time they have done it.
I would suggest that currently that - Release group “Die Entführung aus dem Serail” by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart; Sylvia Greenberg, Jerrold van der Schaaf, Kurt Rydl, RSO Frankfurt & Marcello Viotti - MusicBrainz is all kinds of wrong. The two separate releases should be two separate Release Groups. And then a third Release Group of “4 006408 248378” to tie them together as a Compilation. The separate Release Groups can then also be linked as “part of” the main Release Group.
I don’t think that is a good use for Pseudo Release and should really just be converted to the box set. Same with the Carmen one. If two separate releases need to be linked then a series should be used.
An example of their boxing up old releases is quick to find: Release “Father of Dub” by King Tubby - MusicBrainz
That is a funny label of cheap releases. From Opera to Punk covers. So I expect that separate CDs are produced on the production line, and then a separate location knocks up some boxes so there are three different products to put on a shelf.
Sorry, can’t help my brain and pattern matching. Notice that the Carmen CDs are the two barcodes before 4006408 184904, 4006408 184911 in series. Before these Bizet 4006408 184928, 4006408 184935. So a guess at Carmen’s boxset cat no could be 4006408 248365?
It looks like their single CDs start with a 1, and boxsets start with a 2 in the catalogue number.
Whatever the case, the Carmen CDs should not be in the Release Group with the double CD releases. They should be in separate RGs linked by a “Included in” relationship.
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4 006408 248378 is a completely different title than Die Entführung aus dem Serail. That aside, I agree with separate RGs linked by “part of” if these really were released both separately and together. I still don’t see any really clear evidence of how those two operas were actually were released though. Sure the label seems to do that with compilation-style releases, but I don’t think I’ve seen any evidence one way or another for them doing it with halves of a single work. That’s why I was hoping the original editor had more information about how they acquired it and whether there was a slipcase/box or not.
Good catch. That seems like a point against thinking that these operas were released separately. If the label has separate sequences of catalog numbers for jewel cases and boxes, they might grab one from each regardless of how they intend to sell them.
I expect the act of putting barcodes on both separate CDs and the outer package is part stock control, but also gives any retailer the option of selling “two for one” deals. Or just generally having more stock to sell. I wonder if this is one of those cheap labels you find in petrol stations, etc. Just selling a heap of CDs.
I tried fishing around ebay for some of the titles. Interesting that the one you picked out has two sellers but no artwork with either of them ( 4006408248378 for sale | eBay )
That Carmen one appears as separate CDs for sale. Even if that does not seem sensible. I couldn’t find a boxset of that for sale.
So clearly these are appear both ways - as box sets and separate CDs.
Ultimately, all you can do for sure is document what you actually have to hand. Anything you are not sure of leave a note on the annotation of the release with a hope someone will pick up and comment more. The fact that “pseudo release” has been used for some of these is a fake that should be removed unless they can be found in some form.
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