Irish Folk: merging recordings performed by different artists who might be the same

I recently put this edit to the Request for Votes thread, but I can’t blame anyone for avoiding a vote. If I had been asked for my vote, I would have abstained.

Rince, Rince Eamonn Ceannt and McSherry Ceili Band performed an Irish traditional titled (The) High Caul Cap - but it’s the same recording, not only the same song!!!
I have received two Irish Folk 10-CD box-set compilations and edited them on MB. On one the High Caul Cap appears twice, each with separate ISRC (from subchannel), in the other box is another one, again with a different ISRC.

When I tried to merge some scattered recordings based on trustworthy acoustIDs, I again came across Rince and the McSherry Ceili Band credited for the same recording (different ISRC). Could this be the same artist? If so, what is the correct name?

The discographies on Discogs are overlapping¹, but Discogs has no acoustIDs attached to prove that it’s the same recording. None of the artists have released albums or can be found anywhere online. At least I haven’t found anything. There are only (quite frequent) appearances on various artists compilations.

¹) on Discogs:
https://www.discogs.com/artist/1098378-Rince
https://www.discogs.com/artist/1667349-Rince-Eamonn-Ceannt
https://www.discogs.com/artist/1098368-McSherry-Ceili-Band

There are other duplicate recordings by different artists in these compilations - I stumbeld about them when scanning the files - but it’s about problems like Jim McCann or The Dubliners and that’s more common. Although these also have different ISRCs…

I am not a fan of Irish folk and my knowledge is extremely limited, but I did want to improve these releases at least a little. I wonder if I can.

I will probably cancel these edits to keep evidence of these artists, but that’s not a permanent solution. Maybe someone knows more about it.

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I saw this edit the other day but decided not to vote since I didn’t see these recordings readily accessible to compare online, and don’t have the CDs.

If you’re really 100% sure they’re the same recording and not just similar-sounding, I don’t think there’s any reason not to merge them: I believe the credited artists will stay the same on the track list, so it wouldn’t lose evidence of the different credits. (example of a recording with different tracklist artists)

Having tried unsuccessfully to research this other artist a while back, you have my sympathies!

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The ISRCs are attached to the recording.

I thought, that instead of merge them and explaining in an annotation, I will keep them separate and add an annotation to each of them.

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Good point, I hadn’t thought of that!

For what it’s worth, if they’re the same I tend to think I’d lean toward having the ISRC associations in the annotation over having duplicate recordings, but that’s just me!

Once https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/MBS-13768 is live, I wonder if it’ll be possible to add a link between an individual ISRC and which medium(s) it’s associated with. That might let this situation be represented elegantly.

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You’re probably right. The ISRCs don’t have much value either. They cannot be found in the IFPI online database and the ISRCs on these compilations were assigned sequentially on each CD, though consisting of old recordings that have certainly been issued and registered since 1986. It is obvious that these were assigned without any care.

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It’s getting worse:
There is another "version"¹ of the High Caul Cap in my Irish folk boxes which could be merged into other recordings (with different ISRCs) by Rince or by Eammon Ceannt Band (same acoustID, same length, same problem)

¹) This version is a different work. Looking it up on YouTube, it seems that “High Caul Cap” is not so much a song, but a dance (with a specific rhythm)

If I merge into the earliest entry, it will be performed by Eamonn Ceannt Band but this is a random decision and not a good basis for merging recordings. And these are unconnected artists, not artist vs band of which the artist is a member.

I saw that one in the Request for Votes. Have some Folk editing experience so had a look. Then just ran away. :grin:

When a folk band only has a few releases then they can get named after a lead singer, or perform under different names at different gigs. Or just get drunk and forget what their own names are.

When I am not sure I tend to lean on the “annotation and leave it for someone else to decide”. I like recording merges, but also know how random some AcoustID associations can be. So leave the clues I researched for the next person to continue the dive.

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:laughing: …though in this case it is also the fault of the record company and the person who compiled this release. They didn’t even notice that they put identical recordings in the same release and assigned separate ISRCs for them. Okay, I would not have noticed either - you won’t if you have listened to Irish folk for several hours - it popped up when I scanned the files and they picked the same recording.

You surprise me. Are you saying that a record company employee threw tracks onto a release and didn’t check what they were? And likely just made up some band names? < /sarcasm >

Another thing we have to compete with when trying to get facts.