I’ll write a document about it, but i’ll wait a bit, i expect more people to share their feelings and ideas about this.
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My sumarized thoughts:
Pros: I like the idea of motivating for more time consuming edits. And to show in which fields someone could “earn” more experience.
Cons: punishment isn’t a motivating education. Especialy in the begin as an editor.
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Reward, punishment, might equal change of purpose.
Already during this discussion you are seeing varied opinions to a change meant to be an encouragement to excel.
My experience with MB has been positive. Starting with no knowledge of tagging or of it’s language I was initially mentored and monitored by @Senax. Time was taken to point out my errors and show me how and why to fix them. Except for my thanks, he received no special recognition.
Since that time others have also given their time to help me improve. It has been remarkable that Editors of MB seek to graciously, no caringly, give of themselves to help noobs, add info, make corrections and in general strive for the common good of this site. Why? All for their love of music and sharing their knowledge.
Competing for a higher editorial status could be beneficial but due to human nature it could become egotistical for some and could lead to a few banding together to unseat another.
I applaude the current hierarchy for their method of overseeing this program. Giving way when something is argued successfully and saying no when it needs to be said.
The current method of nominating auto-eds is an example of success. Editors are chosen by their proficiency, activity and willingness to contribute. Even if becoming an auto-ed and having a dollar might buy a doughnut, being chosen represents excellence.
Is there room for other XP levels? Possibly. Setting the criteria to reach it should take into consideration many many things as some have already mentioned. What additional “powers” would be bestowed? How much control are you willing to give out? Fortunately, @Zas is up to this challenge.
Will you entice noobs to move from the “just here to tag my stuff” mode into the editing “game”? Is the “game” just for those who have already moved into advanced editing?
Aside from a stone cold point system, I could picture you (the Hierarchy) reviewing the current auto-eds. You have seen them in action and know their pros and cons (if any). The suggestion of “Badges” for specific areas of expertise should be a good thing. I do agree with others that “punishments” are counter productive.
It will be interesting to see just how this will work on entry level editors. For me personally it will not change how I perform. I strive to do the best I can, as I can, with what I have, while learning more and more from these forums and the editing experience in general. I’m happy to be here with those who love music and will applaud those who are recognized.
Maybe along with setting criteria for beginners to move through their first editing steps, some simple help guidelines and or “plain talk” examples could be put forward. Make things really easy for Noobs especially for “steps 1 & 2” or however they will be named. Once bitten by the MB editing bug they may (hopefully) choose to stay.
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I am strongly opposed to any gamification with rewards that you can lose the chance to earn (timed events that give an achievement, for example). This completionism of mine is related to the reasons I edit MusicBrainz in the first place. If you do decide to implement gamification of any kind, please avoid this.
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Would that be like bonus points for participating in a community cleanup or something?
I personally wouldn’t have a problem with that, since XP is some kind of infinitely earnable good. What really takes my joy away is, in other words, permanently missable content.
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I feel you on that one!
By itself, participating in a cleanup session will grant more XP (since editor will create edits).
For participants to get a bonus it would require:
- either a “manual” bonus allocated by some more experienced editors to participants they choose
- or a more automatic way: experienced editors increase temporarly the XP earned for edits related to one or more specific entities
I’d prefer the second way, that could be something like “+X% XP on entities A, B, C edits for N days”, somehow encouraging people seeking more XP to participate.
The first option can also be good in the sense it could be a one-time bonus, independent from the number of edits but decided by humans (but it will raise issues like “why editor A got it and not editor B”)
The second option would still allow human influence (deciding the percentage), but since it will be an automatic (and clear) process, it is less likely to be subject to discussions. It is somehow subject to abuse too though.
I’d rather postpone bonus possibility implementation till we actually have a working XP system (or not, depending on what the community decides).
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A bit off topic, but badges (per edit type group, like ARs, or something like accepted edits, classical edits etc) could be a good thing for tracking what parts(s) the editor is “good” IMO.
It could help to implement the “advanced editor” idea and maybe an Attribute-based access control (ABAC) for auto edits
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@Zas I still think your post is very meritorious. Is this still on the table? Have you had any further thoughts or is it back burner?
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It was just an idea. But it is a bit soon to go further, mainly because core dev team is busy at moving stuff to react, that’s a long process.
The discussion is open and anyone can contribute to improve the main idea, or to show how it is counter-productive.
For now, I’m not even sure myself it is a good idea.
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I’m still a fan of this idea. Or if not this one, then some other idea that would standardize and/or scale editor permissions more effectively than the current system.
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I missed this thread the first time around, but as someone who can be particularly susceptible to gamification techniques, I like that musicbrainz doesn’t have them right now. I’ve only skimmed this thread because it’s a bit long. A more granular way to handle editor permissions is a worthwhile goal for the site, But if the goal is to drive engagement through gamificaiton, I think that should be handled more carefully.
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hey! i know this is a little old but i just came across this and i think it would be great! this is probably why genius has so many users - they allow users to gain and lose “iq” for edits. this would definitely help musicbrainz as a website and it would make it more fun to participate in mb
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Everipedia, an advancement on the Wikipedia model, has a tradeable EOS blockchain currency, IQ Tokens. Editors increase their stash when they make an accepted edit, and lose if an edit is rejected. (The foregoing is an example of me “barking” at technical jargon. I may have misled readers in ways I don’t understand.)
On one side you have a wiki, plain and simple thing by now, and on the other side you have a… What?
A tradeable EOS blockchain currency, IQ Tokens?
I think this means it (pure fantasy/) is the next Bitcoin and that you can buy or earn some now and be a billionaire by next year (/pure fantasy).
Though these IQ Tokens ARE exchange tradable and if the market decided they were “sexy” then who knows what a large group of optomists might do to the price?
(Full disclosure: I own none.)
Edit: I think we should call our tradeable EOS blockchain currency the Metabit. We could all be billionaire Editors, travelling the globe, injecting greenhouse gasses into the stratosphere, searching out rare Releases, setting up Armenia orchestras to back duduk players performing the music that we think needs to be performed, …
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