FilmBrainz ideas thread (i.e. MovieBrainz, VideoBrainz, etc.)

I’ve been working a lot with videos lately and building up my own library, and I’ve had some thoughts about FilmBrainz I’d like to share~ (feel free to use these, as well as any from my posts, of course)

first off, I feel like the data structure should be somewhere between BookBrainz and MusicBrainz, since we probably want Works, Videos (equivalent to MusicBrainz recordings), Releases, Release Groups, and Actors (equivalent to Authors and Artists).

I believe the video or work level should be the primary level, since releases are generally a bit less important in other databases

I think it might be a good idea to call the release and release group levels something else, since we already have different names between MB and BB, and that might make it easier in the future when talking inter-database, but not essential (especially since we can’t say the same for works). that said, the label/publisher entity can be called Studio, methinks


I feel like characters might be more important in FilmBrainz than they are in MusicBrainz, and they shouldn’t be forgotten. could handle them similarly to MusicBrainz in that they’re a type of Actor (which might get confusing, but it’s probably fine). this would especially work for when an actor plays another person, such as for a biopic (like Daniel Radcliffe playing “Weird Al” in Weird or Austin Butler playing Elvis in Elvis, etc.)


I don’t know how to work series yet, since you can have stuff like TV series (Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, etc.) which is handled one way in other databases, but you can also have film series (Star Wars, The Avengers, the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe, etc.), which is handled differently in other databases. I think we can keep it simpler with a single series entity for both types of series, perhaps with several series types.

that said, we could handle TV series-type series like we’d handle films, since most of the time there’s a core cast in most episodes (wouldn’t apply to all series, of course… Twilight Zone and Black Mirror come to mind, as well as Doctor Who)

one important thing on series, I believe we should allow for multiple default orders, such as production order, release order, story order, and more, as well as alternate names for seasons (for example, chapters, books, and series for My Little Pony: Make Your Mark, Avatar: The Last Airbender, and Doctor Who, respectively)


for release types, I see a few main categories:

  • theatrical releases, for films and shows released in cinemas (possibly including other screenings, like film festivals and conventions, but it might be good to treat these separately for original release date purposes)
  • home video release, your typical DVD, Blu-ray, VHS, or digital release, might or might not include streaming releases here
  • television/broadcast releases, more important for shows, but there are made-for-TV movies too. probably should focus on original releases, but reruns could count too, I’ve got nothing against that
  • streaming releases, could be included under home releases, important for stuff like Netflix originals as well as YouTube videos. like the above, rereleased might or might not be included, especially with how much movies move around between streaming services these days

for images, in addition to having a new Film Art Archive with Internet Archive (for release scans and whatnot), we could possibly partner with Fandom.tv for extra art? like logos, backdrops, all the extra images you might need when tagging movies and shows for a media server/video player


for work types, some I can think of off the top of my head:

  • film, for long form story driven videos
  • short, for short form story driven video
  • documentary, for medium to long form video about (a) specific topic(s), often including interviews and archival footage. could include short form video too
  • video essay, for shorter form video about a specific topic, usually by a single person, but maybe not always. could also include longer form video essays
  • song, for music videos
  • musical, for stage performances and possibly musical movies?
  • trailer, for promoting some other type, such as a film or TV show
  • bonus content (needs a better name), for interviews, behind the scenes, featurettes, deleted scenes, other bonus content typically included on home releases. could be split into multiple types

film versions are pretty important in film (directors cuts, censored/uncensored versions, international versions, dubs, whatever George Lucas did to Star Wars), so I think having relationships for these is pretty important early on (some on the work level and some on the video level). some good examples are

  • Deadpool 2, which has at least 3 main version groups, including the theatrical release, and also
    • Once Upon a Deadpool, a PG-13 edit of Deadpool 2 with added scenes with Deadpool telling the story to Fred Savage in reference to The Princess Bride
    • Deadpool 2: Super Duper Cut, adds and extends several scenes
  • My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic S2E14 “The Last Roundup” has a scene that was edited with different voiceover for a whole character after some controversy
  • Dark Midnight: Doll of the Dead, a now unlisted FilmCow video which had a scene changed to remove a somewhat racist stereotype of a Chinese person (which to be fair was in parody of old 50s shows), replacing him with a mysterious cloaked figure and also a ghost. also some minor dialogue changes
  • Scooby Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed has an international version where a Burger King logo was changed to KFC (and perhaps other changes). probably a fairly common occurrence
  • Star Wars, too many versions to list, most famously changing the order in which Han and Greedo shoot each other, but also inserting new actors in place of the old ones (namely Anakin Skywalker’s force ghost and Emperor Palpatine in several scenes)
  • Kung Fu Panda had an entirely new version created for the Chinese market, in which the lips were changed to match the Chinese dub of the movie
  • Zootopia famously has a different newscaster based on the region the film was released in (a moose for North America, a tanuki for Japan, a koala for Australia & New Zealand, etc.)
  • Clue was famously released into theaters with three different endings, so if you and a friend saw it in different theaters, you might have seen a different ending. on the home video release, all three endings are included back to back in that cut

I’m wondering if perhaps we want to have video groups as well, as to group different versions, cuts, and variants together (tho in most cases, this could be achieved through simple video-video relationships too… not sure how to handle Clue tho…)


feel free to comment below on my ideas or leave your own~

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https://thetvdb.com

I use the above for my KODI media centre. You’ll need to dig into how they work and find their pros and cons before trying to reinvent the wheel. How will you make FilmBrainz different enough to draw in the editors you need?

The main issue I see is resources. The sheer cost of the servers and developing another system that competes with the more established names.

Search the forum for a few older discussions on the topic:

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this is true, most people probably categorize movies, TV, and other videos differently than music or books…

I know it might be a while before FilmBrainz gets started, but I would love to see it, both for the open data and for the more open mindset. for example, I know TMDB doesn’t allow YouTube videos (in general), which is an area I’m quite interested in documenting. while IMDb does (at least to some extent), I don’t think their data is very open to everyone (for example, Jellyfin doesn’t pull metadata from IMDb. I could be mistaken on this point tho)

that said, I am happy to see Once Upon a Deadpool got it’s own entry at TMDB, tho the same probably can’t be said for the other examples I gave… (disclaimer, I haven’t looked at all of them yet)

I did also find OMDb API, which seems to (perhaps unofficially) provide movie information from IMDb, which I think Jellyfin does in fact use, but it’s not a database itself, I don’t think…

for music videos, there is IMVDb, but there doesn’t seem to be much of a userbase over there (tho there are users, since there are videos from this year)… I’ve had a well-sourced video submission sitting over there for almost a year with no response (that’s part of the reason I’ve been pushing for better music video representation in MusicBrainz, as a sidenote)

(another sidenote on the name, which may have been said before, I feel like we shouldn’t go with MovieBrainz, as that’d be three seperate projects with MB as the obvious abbreviation, even tho MetaBrainz is typically MeB. I’d prefer FilmBrainz or VideoBrainz)

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As far as I remember they don’t even allow music videos at all?

And TVDB is quite unpleasant to deal with(Last I seen they have a system where specific people can lock a show and no one else can edit, and those people tend to have their own ideas how things should be)

Last I tried to use IMVDb they had a system where all edits need to be approved and literal months went by without mine getting approved. And from what I recall they track minimal information about the videos.

There simply isn’t a site that comes close to MusicBrainz for video currently, so I am very in favour of a VideoBrainz.

And as for getting it started, there are dumps from other video sites(though some might be old) that could be imported by a bot to kick start the site at least with basic information.

And just imagine being able to look at a movie or TV show and seeing all the music linked to it. And all the related books. Having a series of brainz sites could offer integration that you can’t get with others. Which would then offer an even better experience for media software like Plex/Jellyfin/Kodi as they could then link all of your media. Look up a person and see all the music, books, movies, tv shows they’ve been in/released/written/directed/whatever in one place.

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These are all nice ideas.

What I don’t see: Where do you get all this information?
If you say “IMDB” or “TMDB”: why should you copy these existing information?
If you say “my own DVD or BluRay cover” then you never get informations about all streaming movies or movies that just not exist on silver discs for example.
If you say “I transscripted and OCR’d them from the end credits” then I would say: RESPECT :wink:

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the same could be said about MusicBrainz data, for what it’s worth (I’ve actually been copying booklet credits with OCR as of late). I don’t see any particular issues with copying data from other databases, since data usually can’t be copyrighted (at least to my knowledge)


also want to add a great use case example: YouTube series. they can get quite complicated, and a MetaBrainz approach can make it easier to understand (with the right data display, of course). some examples:

Game Grumps is a gameplay channel on YouTube, with several series (Game Grumps, Steam Train, Guest Grumps, Game Grumps Animated etc.) and several sub series within them (mostly playthroughs, like Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Maker, etc.) and some one-off episodes. this could easily be handled with series and sub series

Game Grumps [series]
    Game Grumps: Breath of the Wild [series]
        Breath of the Wild, Part 1: Shirtless Hero [video]
        Breath of the Wild, Part 2: Cooking Up a Storm [video]
        etc.
    Game Grumps: Resident Evil VILLAGE [series]
        Resident Evil VILLAGE, Part 1: Worst Dad Simulator EVER [video]
        Resident Evil VILLAGE, Part 2: Should we be drinking pineapple juice? [video]
        etc.
    Game Grumps: PT [video]
    etc.

a second good example is Extra History, a YouTube channel which does multipart series on various historical figures and events. this is handled with a season per subseries in TMDB and TheTVDB

Extra History [series]
    Extra History: World War I: The Seminal Tragedy [series]
        World War I: The Seminal Tragedy, part 1: The Concert of Europe [video]
        World War I: The Seminal Tragedy, part 2: One Fateful Day in June [video]
        etc.
    Extra History: Operation Avalanche [series]
        Operation Avalanche, part 1: The Forgotten D-Day [video]
        Operation Avalanche, part 2: D-Day Nearly Fails [video]
    etc.

there are many other similar examples I could give, like OverSimplified, Sam O’Nella Academy, Minute Physics, the many series of Adam Neely, Polyphonic, Technology Connections, and more, some more complicated, some less, but 2 is probably good enough for now

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