Bootleg with uncertain venue, even city

Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f9cff468888> #<Tag:0x00007f9cff468798> #<Tag:0x00007f9cff4686a8>

To enter a bootleg release with uncertain information. The venue is unknown, and the city is speculative. What is the recommendation? You can see an example of this bootleg here:

I have the original upload, and the one who transferred this concert identifies the location as: “VENUE UNKNOWN (Chicago?)”

2008-12-07: Rose Garden, Portland, OR, USA
This is the example from
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases/Live_bootlegs
Which would lead to
1977: Location unknown (Chicago, IL, USA?)

If you can find a sole venue for the band in Chicago in 1977 then you could include that.
And if you can see a better title and think you can convince others then go with the better title.

3 Likes

As the source says Chicago? with a question mark, I would say put Chicago only in the annotation.

And the release group / release title would be 1977: Grand Illusion Tour Radio Special, USA.
And the recording comments would be live, 1977: Grand Illusion Tour Radio Special, USA.

2 Likes

This is where a bit of research can help. (And I do lots of this kinda of bootleg research) If you are happy about Year and City, try this fan site

http://www.styxtoury.com/performances/styx/detail/1977.html

Fan website with a list of gigs which looks pretty complete. Gives us 1977-09-23: Auditorium Theater, Chicago, IL, USA

Secondary source also mentions Chicago and Pre-FM source (why don’t they just say AM?)

I think you can be fairly confident as to the location, though it is possible that Soundaboard has just lifted from Guitars101. I’d add notes in the annotation, but set date and location without question marks.

3 Likes

Thanks all for the suggestions!

Soundaboard offers no evidence for their statement. They probably wrote this based on the note from the original bootlegger.

This recording is likely distinct from the 1977 Mantra Studio live recording (e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Styx-Live-1977-Chicago-CD-Very-Rare-Radio-Broadcast-/373383335269). But I can’t exclude it.

One more bit of information. When introducing “Lady,” Dennis De Young says “One of the first times we ever played this song was right here, on this stage.” “Lady” was released in 1973, which suggests it was performed in the Chicago area, but styxtoury.com does not include a performance at Auditorium Theater in 1972-3. This clue might be possible to resolve with more research.

With all of these considerations, I feel there remains reasonable doubt about the date and venue. Therefore I will go with @jesus2099 suggestion, but describe 1977-09-23: Auditorium Theater, Chicago, IL, USA as a likely candidate in the annotation.

Pre-FM source (why don’t they just say AM?)

LOL. I remember 1977, we didn’t have MP3 yet but we did have FM.

3 Likes

I agree the soundaboard link is dubious looking.

Interesting crumb to add is on Wikipedia as their page about Lady has another confirmation for Chicago in the first paragraph.

That fits with the quote of “first performed here”. Did he “literally” mean that exact stage? OR was he meaning City?

Great question. I presume the former, but who knows? He did qualify this as “one of the first times” so there is some wiggle room. And maybe the venue changed names, or a new one built to replace an older one.

It’s within reason that the recording was at another venue (e.g. Kansas City Memorial Hall, which hosted both 1972-3 and 1977 performances), but the bootlegger got the reel tape from a Chicago radio station so put that in his notes. I do prefer the Chicago IL explanation, as you do, but it’s hard to be sure.

1 Like

I think the common thread of “Chicago” give us enough to say “yeah, it is this one”. Chicago radio, first play of the track, back to the city for a gig, chatting to his favourite crowd. Are they a Chicago band? It seems he may like the place

Personally I’d nail it to this date and location and pile evidence into the Annotation for others to pick apart. I think there is more leaning towards it being right than wrong.