Artist Relationship Type - group or ensemble

When selecting Artist relationship type, there is Orchestra but I do not see a type for Ensemble or a generic Group. Small string ensembles (quartet, trio etc) are included in instruments.

There are plenty of Classical Ensembles that are neither Orchestras nor String Quartets / or Quintets.

When working with Jazz, I also miss a generic Group relationship type. For example, The Bad Plus are very well known under its Group name and less recognizable under individual artists names.

And finally, how do I credit The Rolling Stones on the Relationship Tab ?

I’ve seen some releases where the Group is assigned a relationship type of an arranger, but this does not make much sense.

Do we miss Ensemble and Group as an Artist Relationship Type ?

How do other editors deal with this ?

I don’t edit much classical, but often need this kind of credit when working on artists. I like filling in as much detail as possible

If I need to credit a group on a recording, then “performer” is the closest I can find to signify “this is a group that performs along with the main artist”. Maybe they are a backing band, or perform with the main artist.

New Levellers album has been created as a collaboration with The Moulettes. No easy way to show the collab, so I used “Performer” in that case. As well as naming some of the separate artists where I could spot their parts (strings, guitars, voices here)

I’ve often had tracks where a named group perform the strings. Example here:

In that case I just set the “strings” instrument to signify the sub-group as the individual performers were unknown.

If the recording is by The Rolling Stones and they are the main artist credit, then it is usual to not name the band again as a performer of their own recording. But you can name the individuals on drums, guitar, bass guitar, vocals.

Likely because they are credited on the cover as the arranger of that track. Especially see this when a band is doing covers of someone else’s work.

The case of a group doing background singing or something similar is not an issue.

This works fine when you work with Rock Groups or Jazz Groups, artist credit on the Edit tab. When you work with a Classical and Jazz at the same time, this fells apart because for Classical Credited Artist on Edit tab is supposed to be a composer first, so you might end up with Beethoven as a Main Artist.

Ideally I would like to credit Group and individual artists on the Relationship Tab.

In Classical again, as per guideline, you do credit an Orchestra on a relationship tab, so extending that logic to Jazz or Rock, I should be able to credit group The Bad Plus as a performer.

There seems to be special rules for Classical, arguably because there are more data points. And this is fine when you stay in that genre, but when you start cross over to other genres, it gets little messy.

Yeah, that’s why I avoid Classical editing. :laughing: It gets unique and confusing.

Jazz is not going to follow Classical rules. But I am lost as to what happens when you have both on the same CD. I’d assume Jazz would swap back to normal credits in that case.

I would certainly use “Performer” credits in these situations. I will use “Orchestra” or “Strings” when I know what someone is doing. I see “Performer” as a way of saying that this group is on here, but can’t get more specific. I’ve use “Wind instruments” to cover Clarinets and Oboes. And “Brass” to cover a trumpet and horns section. All in rock\folk music.

I see this as sensible as when you go an look at that artist’s page you’d then see the credit correctly displayed on there under relationships.

Classical is confusing but it’s data model can easily adapt other genres, there are more attributes.

Putting classical aside, Perfomer will work for me, but I’m hesitant to use it. For example, I’m not sure what editors would say if I add to release Sticky Fingers a Performer - The Rolling Stones…

Can I get some opinion here please ?

I think many editors would likely remove the Performer credit in those cases as it is already implied in the track list. That is not a classical recording so the main performer is the Artist attached to the recording.

I have seen it appear though. Sometimes in some live tracks.

You see it with a solo vocalist. Someone like Bjork will be credited as Lead Vocal on their tracks.

Thought so. Will not do that then.