Vinyl 45 rpm with 11 minutes and 4 tracks. "single" or "E.P."?

Also, “usually” is not an absolute. It’s more of a rule of thumb. It might be better if the wording were changed to “If in doubt…”

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Or “If the release is of a type historically classified as an E.P. use that category.”

I’d avoid that if we don’t describe how it was historically classified.

How about “Historically an EP was a release having 2-3 tracks per side and less than 25 or 30 minutes in total length. With the introduction of the CD, the distinction is less clear. Often EPs will contain ‘EP’ in the title. If in doubt, follow artist intent.”

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That looks good to me.
(IMO the MB documentation should work for people searching on MB and for new contributors.)

Improving the documentation to make it easier for new people is always welcome by me :slight_smile: That page is part of the wiki so you can edit it and then nudge @reosarevok to update the official version :wink:

Ahaaa! Thanks - I was thinking, “How come I never get to a wiki page when I search documentation.”

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I should have said follow the links at the bottom where it says “transcluded from”… If it has “style” in the address there’s a more formal process of tickets for making changes. And of course it’s usually a good idea to discuss possible changes here beforehand like you have done :slight_smile:

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I do not believe that this discussion really resolved anything.

IMO the current definition (“artist intent”, “EP in title”) is too loose and is in conflict with historical usage of EP in the vinyl era. It is also significantly difference to usage by other music platforms (which generally are close to historical usage).

Here are a few current definitions:

Wikipedia (majority pop vinyl/CD, ignoring minority 78RPM and classical releases): Vinyl, 7"/10"/12", >=3 tracks, <= 25 mins in total

iTunes: <30mins and either 4-6 tracks or (1-3 tracks and >=1 track > 10mins)

Spotify: <30mins and 4-6 tracks

However, Wikipedia also suggests that for CDs we should distinguish between EPs (a mini-album with tracks having equal importance) and a “maxi-single” (with a primary “A-side” track and several “B-side” tracks). The release title may be indicative of a “single” if the release title is the same as track 1 or an EP if different from track 1, but this should not be considered definitive.

I am not suggesting that MB should be prescriptive about this but IMO we need a better guide than the present one and I would suggest the following

EP
An EP is a so-called “Extended Play” release (dating back to Vinyl formats) and sometimes contains the letters EP in the title. Generally an EP will have more tracks (excluding remixes or alternative versions of the main track(s)) or be longer than a traditional single but shorter (typically < 30 mins) than a full length release (an LP or “Long Play”) and often the tracks are exclusive to the EP and don’t come from a previously issued release. A Release should definitely be classified as an EP if the artist / publisher has defined it as such, or if it was originally issued on Vinyl with >4 tracks and a total length between 5 and 25 mins. If first issued on CD and length < 30 mins, then: if the release title is the same as track 1, it is likely to be a single (or “maxi-single”) though artist intent / research may prove otherwise; if the release title is not the same as track 1 then it is more likely to be an EP. Editors should use research and their judgement to determine whether it is a single or EP release.

P.S. I’ll leave this for a few days to see what others think, but if there is reasonable consensus I will make an edit to the RG-Type wiki page.

I will not help by saying so but in various countries, the definition may vary.

In France I don’t remember having ever heard such things as EP.
We had maxi 45 tours.
45 tours meant single in English, so it would be like a maxi-single.

In Japan, as far as I know, EP means the regular A/B 7″ 45 rpm vinyl singles, as can be seen in this EP photo search.

@jesus2099 - that is normal in multi-lingual, multi-country, multi-culture real-life.

To do this properly we would have to move the Type field from Release Group to Release and indeed to Release Event, so that rather than:

RG: EP
Release Event: UK, 1970
Release Event: France, 1970

instead you had:

Release Event: UK, 1970, EP
Release Event: France, 1970, Single

But I am really not sure that this is worth the effort for minor differences in terminology.

Maybe it’s because I don’t really know EP.
I would prefer keeping on release group, things like album, mini album, single, maxi single.

Those mini album and maxi single English terms are not only in Japan but also used in France CD era.

You have a new fan. This is just the best idea​:+1::+1:

EDIT: Oh, and it says “Laurel”, the dress is blue and with 4 tracks your RG is clearly an EP :wink:

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Generally speaking Maxi-singles are 12" and EPs are 7". For some reading on French EPs, see: https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/motortown-revue-the-french-eps-1965/