Tidying up random and messy tags on live, radio or studio DJ mixes and live rave PAs

Lots to cover, only a little time this morning. I’ll be back later in the day.

The main point is - most of your worries and questions are covered by the design of the database that MB uses. You are not the first person with a mission like yours, so the ideas have already been sorted through way deeper than you realise. They just need some explaining. It will make most sense when we start adding some data using the examples you have dropped.

The database has a structured way to look after your musical releases. And when we follow that, then any decent media player will play along.

As to OCD - why else do you think this place is here? No sane person spends this long on sorting out music. :crazy_face:

Starting at the end:

This is a MusicBrainz “Release Group”. Under one Release Group you will have:

  • The Release on Cassette media with track list broken down.
  • CD reissues.
  • Radio broadcasts of the event.
  • You’ll have a “single file per side” bootleg on Digital Media as is found on the archive.org link at the top of the thread.
  • Newer DAT releases that appear of the Whole Gig.
  • This would also include your “re-edits” of the CD and Tapes if these are in that same publicly accessible archive.

The idea of a Release Group is editions of the show on different Media are kept together. The theme being the event is in the same group, and each Release will have their own variation of a title.

A Release Group is more normally used to keep all versions of a “normal” release together: CD, Vinyl, Cassette, 10th Anniversary reissue, Deluxe editions.

You are talking “Bootlegs” here really, but the same concept is used. You are kinda lucky that the archive.org folder is publicly accessible as that makes these legit bootlegs that MB will document. If these were just private mix tapes they would not be admissible to the database.

Backups - a quick side step. Go buy an external drive or two NOW. Music is precious. Make snapshots of your music folder and keep them offline. Mirroring hard disks is for hardware failure, not protection against virus or human error.

You also want to take a snapshot now of your archive before you start. As you already know, there will be times errors are made and it helps to be able to go back in time.

iTunes - I’ll keep this short, but don’t build things around that player. It is one of the most awkward out there as it is really just an old shop front. And will soon be abandoned by Apple as they go more online. (Seriously - when was the last time it had an update?) Other threads cover how bad it is handling tags, images and updates. I don’t want to be distracted with that old rant here. :zipper_mouth_face:

Music storage - a flat file system is never good. iTunes is a shop selling artists and doesn’t really know what to do with your music. This is why we will find a better way of keeping it on the hard disk. But first we will be looking at getting the data into MusicBrainz. Later we talk Picard and what it can do for you with fancy file renaming scripts. MusicBrainz stores way more info about your music than any player can currently handle. I am a KODI fan and the music side of that media centre is built around MB’s tags. Winamp, Foobar2000, many other better players out there. But lets not go down that tangent yet. We need some examples in the database first. :slight_smile:

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MB has at least one of these Helter Skelter releases.

As many more are going to join it, we need to work out what should and should not be in the titles. Clean up the template.

Discogs is also clearly confused as it seem to have three different ways of naming things in your example. Not surprising for those Left Pondians as they often get confused about the UK.

Are they all the same gig “The Final Countdown 1998-1999”? That may be a good example of three that would be in the same Release Group together.

In that set of Discogs example you have a compilation set of 8 tapes, but also two separate tapes. How do they relate? Are they from the same 8-pack, or separate stand-alone releases?

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You’re in a community of people who spend thousands of hours adding music data minutae… don’t worry about it :stuck_out_tongue:

Re. how you’d like to title releases to sit in your own collection, or merge them into new releases, that has to take a back seat in the community database, where it’s more important that everyone adds data consistently/predictably. For instance putting the event name in the title might not suit these releases.

However as IvanDobsky has said, this DB is very capable of handling most of the data you can throw at it, and then a lot of that can be used in your tagging setup. The mixture of releases, release groups, collections, and events (that you can link releases + recordings to) means that you can probably go as deep as you would like. Your knowledge sounds invaluable so I’d say the quickest way is to just jump in with a Discogs import script and add a couple of releases! Stuff like bootlegs of bootlegs with different details sounds like one of those things that’s super satisfying to disentangle and get all tidy on MB!!

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The Discogs examples are both the official release (which is considered unofficial, won’t have had barcodes) plus some bootlegs of those not released by Helter Skelter. I think the different 8-packs and 12-packs, also 4-packs and double packs released by Helter over their years in business were sometimes straight recordings of one arena, ie. the Technodrome, but other times collections of all genre sets between two main arenas. This event used to have drum & bass in arena 1, the Sanctuary, while happy hardcore was being played in Arena 2, Rollers, but then switch genres every hour, but I’ve been reassembling all the different sets and using the track tags to indicate which hour of which arena rather than which side of tape or disc. This is where rules get complicated for MB’s database and mine as the tapes or discs were often compiled in the order of most notable artists first rather than the warm-up acts.

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I have been meaning to learn scripting but so far have just been probably doing everything far more manually than is healthy so I will have to take directions, if anybody can point me to the right instructions. Thanks again.

As a start, you might want to check out the Scripting section of the Picard User Guide.

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An MB release is very specific in what it is: A music release/package in the exact way it and the contents were released. There’s not much wiggle room for ‘fan improvement’ to a release unfortunately (like rearranging the track order) - though if you released your edits as bootlegs you might be able to add those :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:*

But the starting point is to add the existing as-is releases to MB anyway, maybe add an event and see how linking them to recordings and releases goes. Once you’ve done a bit you’ll get an idea of what data you can pull for scripting and how you might want to do it.

*If it’s widespread enough. This would be a good example of how MB represents releases quite specifically - your bootleg release date would be 2021. Then you’d have to set Picard to pull the original recording date or script something to take another value.

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3 posts were split to a new topic: Recommendation for media player to replace iTunes

MB guidlelines are fairly strict as they aim to bring such a wide area of media types together. They will be different to your current layout. And much of your info will end up in Annotations of the Release and Release Groups. But the core Releases - the Casettes, CDs, the MP3s - these will have a good structured home here. And your added data will fit along side for other people to extract and expand upon.

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Any idea what I’m doing wrong here?
I’ve ticked all the ‘i don’t know tracklist’ boxes available.

I had that same weird error the other day. Can’t remember what I did. Have you been deleting or shuffling Mediums? Or maybe try shuffling a Medium up and down the list?

I know it didn’t make sense at the time, but I managed to ignore it some how or other.

I’m literally messing with as little as possible to see how far I can get with the least effort because it will still take years just to get the info I do know up, let alone all the other details most people can cope without for these type release groups… If I do have to tick ‘I don’t know the tracklist’ for every single file, this is already a daunting task TBH

Replied over here as I think something is “odd”: Why won't it let me proceed? - #3 by IvanDobsky

Obsession - XCLUSIV - The Rave Masters - Live 6 Pack Mixes
Here’s another tricky example as this is a 6 x cassette collection from at least two different gigs.

Release Artist is: Ellis-Dee, Jack Smooth, DJ SY and Easy Groove.
Then the separate tracks get the artist relevant to that gig.

They seem to be the main four names on the release. Or it would be a Various Artists.

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Here’s an example where the tagged files aren’t adding to the database properly using the Add Cluster As Release plugin…



I think this was released as a ZIP and there are no track numbers or indication of the order the sets and often the event flyer sets times change at the last minute at these kinda parties but you can see that MB doesn’t want to take the data from the Contributing Artist field and instead takes it from the Album Artist (all except the last file). Am I missing something? Thanks!

Maybe try massaging the data a bit in notepad++ or MP3tag. Could be that extra chars are confusing it. Can’t tell due to not being able to see the full text.

I don’t know what Notepad++ is but MP3Tag reads full tags including art.

Notepad++ is a better text editor for Windows. If you run a Windows VM on that Apple, it is worth checking. It has some pretty decent text manipulation tools over and above the average text editor.

Otherwise I’d be using MP3tag to massage the tags a bit before Picard gets at them.

Paste some of the text you’re getting from this duff album. maybe a pattern with stand out. Something is being misread by the text parser.

Sorry bro, you’ve lost me a bit there but this is all the tags already embedded. I just wondered why the plug-in isn’t handling it.