Styleguide about DVD-Audio layer

There is a styleguide about Hybrid SACD, DualDisc, DVDplus formats.

What about Audio-DVDs with more then one mixes (e.g. 5.1 mix and hi-res stereo as in http://musicbrainz.org/release/c024d126-200f-49b0-8e3d-3212d1151057).

I would split up the mixes to separate “medium”. Is that O.K.?

I would definitely expect all the mixes in the same disc / layer / whatever to be in the same medium. The layer issue is because each layer is a different type of format, not just because they have different mixes.

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I have a similar situation and am trying to figure it out. https://musicbrainz.org/release/4905955e-6eaa-44b7-b094-aba82d0513cf is clearly packaged as DVD-Audio, but it states that it has different mixes (surround sound), but it says it also contains DVD-Video Compatible videos as well. Should I just treat this similar to an enhanced CD and tag the different mixes and videos all on one medium. I didn’t even know DVD-Audio had layers like this sometimes. Here’s an image of the packaging: https://ia902706.us.archive.org/3/items/mbid-4905955e-6eaa-44b7-b094-aba82d0513cf/mbid-4905955e-6eaa-44b7-b094-aba82d0513cf-28395545865.jpg

Several DVD-Audio have a DVD-Video content, provided for people not equipped with DVD-Audio player device.

It’s the same reason why SACD usually have a regular audio CD layer (CDDA).

But for DVD-Audio and DVD-Video, is just a matter of putting data files in AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders. It is not a physical layer thing.

I have never edited DVD-Audio, we should look for existing examples in MB.

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I went ahead and edited it with all the track info into the same medium. Easier to split into different mediums than to combine them. But yeah. Makes sense. You can play DVD-Audio in a DVD-Video machine, but not the other way around. So, why not just have some video tracks that will play in the DVD-Video player.

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Sorry to dig up an older issue, hope it’s OK. I just entered this:

That second disc has all the files in the VIDEO_TS folder. The tracks are the same as the CD, but it has three videos that can be accessed via the menu.

But when I imported one of the audio tracks into Audacity it appeared the file had two streams: one stereo and one 5.1. Should I treat streams the same as layers in Hybrid SACDs and add the album tracks one more time (with a “5.1 mix” suffix)?

Thanks!

Usually a DVD has them all just listed as tracks on the same single medium. So list 5.1 audio alongside the stereo.

SACD tends to be treated different as there are separate layers on the physical medium.

OK, thanks.

What is a good example of an SACD entry with different layers?

And how can I be absolutely sure that the SACD layer contains only a 5.1 stream or also a stereo stream? (Not sure if that requires another layer or not.)
(I have a standalone SACD player but it with my Nektar - Journey to the Centre of the Eye SACD, it plays 5.1 straight away, it does not give me a choice for the stereo, which is the CD layer.)

Sorry I can’t explain how to know what you have. I don’t own an SACD player and assumed it was a feature of the hardware.

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Bumping an old thread but I ran into this issue with The Lord of the Rings: The Complete Recordings.

These were released in 2005/2006/2007 as 3-4 CDs + DVD-Audio and re-issued in 2018 digitally and on 3-4 CDs + Blu-ray. The DVDs and Blu-rays contain both stereo and 5.1 surround mixes.

The 2018 Blu-ray re-issue release pages (e.g. https://musicbrainz.org/release/58a9c854-e321-4dcc-93fe-ca1066a72433) mention that the Blu-rays contain both surround sound and stereo, but don’t reference this in the tracklists. The older DVD-Audio releases (e.g. https://musicbrainz.org/release/72913ca7-2dab-49b0-afa4-68c7b95718c5) include annotations about 5.1 surround sound on the DVDs, but nothing about stereo, and the tracklists contain (5.1 mix) suffixes. This seems wrong or at least incomplete given the DVDs also contain stereo.

Options as I see them:

  • Update the DVD-Audio release annotations to reference both stereo and 5.1 audio being included. Remove the (5.1 mix) suffixes, or
  • Add an extra DVD/Blu-ray medium for each of these releases for the 5.1 mixes (and make new recordings).

The former is easier, but means there are no separate recordings for the 5.1 mixes. The latter is what I’d do for SACDs, but there are dedicated format types (SACD (2 channels), Hybrid SACD (SACD layer, 2 channels), etc.) for those media. DVD-Audio and Blu-ray have no such sub-types.

Thoughts?

Either option is fine.

  • Annotation lets people know what is available.
  • Adding both stereo and 5.1 surround versions to a list is the more complete\correct solution but requires more work.

There is no perfect answer. Some people adding a DVD will just type in what the read on they rear cover and click “finished”. This is correct. The completist will rip a DVD and then list all the files they actually ripped, and all the versions. Stereo and 5.1 being different recordings.

It is quite possible for the ripped version to find more tracks that were not listed on the rear cover.

So if you feel like you have the time, you can go ahead and add both 2.0 and 5.1 tracks. But when adding the 5.1 tracks, just like on a SACD, don’t assume that each version is same length. I have some SACDs that each layer has different track lengths. Even between stereo versions.

SACDs are treated as three different mediums as they are physically three different layers on a CD. A DVD\BluRay is one medium as the data is all on the same layer (**).

(**) [pedant mode] :nerd_face:Okay, DVD9 is two layers on one disc but the point is it is the same hardware that reads those two layers as one as layer two is extension of layer one. Whereas an SACD player chooses the layer to play and each layer is generally the same music, just a different format. I’m trying to talk simple language.[/pedant mode]

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I’m not sure this is right - per the SACD spec (https://www.sonicstudio.com/pdf/dsd/DSDIFF_1.5_RecommendedUsage.pdf) stereo and multichannel audio ends up in different areas but there’s just the one SACD layer (read with a 650nm laser). A hybrid SACD has the extra CD layer, read with a 780nm laser.

EDIT: I’m half-wrong. In fact there are 3 SACD disc variations: single layer (HD layer only), dual layer (2 HD layers, same principle as DVD-9) and hybrid discs - the only type I have in my collection - with the HD layer and backwards-compatible CD layer. https://superaudio-cd.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/whitepaper.pdf (page 7). Sometimes the dual (not hybrid) layer discs will have stereo on one layer and multichannel audio on the other, but these seem quite rare in the wild. Most are hybrid with both stereo and multichannel on the single HD layer.

I didn’t mean to drag this OT based on my lack of exact manufacturing knowledge of SACDs. :joy:

I assume I am right with the SACD player you have to choose if it plays Stereo or 5.1? So a physical choice as to which version plays back due to player settings.

The point is SACDs are done the way they are on MB. And DVD\BluRay done the way they are on MB. Handling of multi-channel recording is a little inconsistent.

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Yes, that’s fair. SACDs can have 1 stereo area and 1 multichannel area (both being optional - most releases have at least stereo but there are some rare multichannel-only albums out there). Players have a toggle between stereo and multichannel.

DVD-A on the other hand is flexible almost to a fault - channel configurations can even change from track to track, so it doesn’t make sense to have format subtypes in MusicBrainz like there are for SACDs. In the case of LOTR there are 2 ‘titles’ on each DVD: 1 for stereo and 1 for 5.1 audio, so rather like an SACD.

Anyway, for now I’ll start by removing the (5.1 mix) suffixes (for the stereo recordings) and updating the annotations. I’ll think about adding a new batch of recordings for the 5.1 audio.