A b2b set is when a DJ plays a track and then hands the deck over to another DJ and so on. These are usually labeled as b2b.
The other one is for when a recording contains several sets. Say two hour radio program where a DJ plays the first hour and then another DJ plays the second hour.
To cross-reference with MixesDB: They use DJ b2b DJ b2b DJ for the former and DJ, DJ, DJ for the latter (should be DJ / DJ / DJ here per multiple artist credits guidelines)
Just a small note, if it’s labeled on a trustworthy source as ‘vs.’, I would use that and not ‘b2b’. That should cover all variations. There really isn’t a huge difference but it can sometimes indicate that the set is a ‘battle’.
so I guess this will work for any dj mix and not just radio 1 essential mix. I am wondering in picard how to setup in the programming to move audio categorised as broadcast and dj set into dj mixes and audio that is categorized as just broadcast is moved into radio. or something?
I don’t quite follow this point. If they are marked as “broadcast” and “digital media” then guidelines say should be fine as official. If the Release is documenting the radio show broadcast this is the same as with a podcast or radio play. It was an official broadcast.
If the release was being burnt to CDs and sold, then it would become a bootleg.
The reason I think they should be bootlegs is that they disappear from the website after they’ve been broadcast after about a month. So the only copies you’ll find are ripped and uploaded to SoundCloud or other places. Also the ones I’ve been working on most recently are from the 90’s so they were never broadcast digitally & the uploads are usually for cassette tapes people had.
I edit 1950s Goons broadcasts. They disappeared half a century ago. Often only ever going out once, live. But at MB we still will take a note of when it happened. A list still exists of the original shows as Broadcasts. Many of those never got taped off the radio at all.
Some artists will release a Single for only a short period. And then it is deleted from their catalogues. The only copies floating around are on Torrents, old cassettes, YouTube and MP3 collections - but we still document the original recording, the original event as real.
The original event is real. It is genuine. It happened. You are documenting history.
The original event wasn’t released on digital media and I don’t see AM/FM/Sat/Webstream broadcasts as media. The entry represents a digital recording, which in some cases might be incomplete or split into parts from tape sides and there might also be more than one copy circulating with different completeness/split points, requiring several releases in a release group. I would highly oppose putting releases which have never officially been released digitally as official digital releases.
Yes, but if you enter something as ‘broadcast’ you are entering the data about the broadcast itself. MusicBrainz doesn’t just store data for tagging. Otherwise we would have to change all vinyl and cassette releases to bootleg.
@aerozol I see your point. If I’m adding this as a release that was broadcast then it makes sense to set it as official, but the one question would be what’s the right Format for the Medium? These early ones from the 90’s were only over FM, as @finalsummer said there’s no option for that. Does it make sense to file a JIRA to add that as a format for the medium?
The next question is should there also be a release for the versions that have been uploaded as an mp3 online? And if so should they be marked as bootleg?
Good point I dunno! I just assumed there would be something there.
Technically yes! In practice no because I’m betting everyone tagging their releases wants to tag with the original broadcast details. For instance, a bootleg digital release will either have an unknown or a later release date. I (personal call) would ignore ‘technically correct’ here.
If @finalsummer is correct that there is precedent for bootleg + digital media then it’s also good to respect precedent imo. I don’t edit these mixes. But in terms of general broadcast releases I wouldn’t set them to bootleg.
It may surprise you, but the world of audio did exist before MP3
It gets more confusing when you step back to the 1950s The Goons on MW and LW. The only copies being captured on reel to reel or cassettes at the time. I still mark them as digital media mainly on the basis that the broadcasts are not vinyl\CD\whatever. Not something “physical”.
We all tend to have “copies” on other mediums. MP3 rips are common.
But this also occurs with many other shows that were first broadcast on the radio, but now exist in a digital form. No one really knows how they got from the radio into the hands of the editor.
The John Peel Shows are another good example that appear in that same timeline before your Radio 1 mixes. People sitting at home with cassette tapes recording his shows, and eventually format shifting to MP3 over the years. They originated on Analogue radio, but now are in the hands of people as MP3 files. You are probably correct in we need a better option that just “Digital Media” for these kinds of broadcasts.
I would rate that as a “no, not really”. The original recordings are the broadcast shows. So that kinda fits in MB’s idea of crediting that first recording. The fact that people have made their own copies of the shows as MP3s is fairly standard bootleging\sharing. We tend to credit the original then unless some special repacking happens.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. So I think for all these broadcasts for now I’ll mark them as official and digital media, but I’ll also add a JIRA to consider adding radio broadcast as a format. I think to be complete it’d probably need to be hierarchical along the lines of:
Trouble is your list doesn’t really work as a show will be on DAB, FM and AM at the same time. Especially something like BBC Radio. I don’t know what those other ones are you list.
Radio is not exclusive to one frequency. I don’t see what is wrong with just using Digital Media? Ultimately that is what is often being catalogue here anyway. The key being the Broadcast bit noting that this is using a date and details of the original show.
So would the download be Official or a Bootleg? Or does that depend on whether it was recorded by an individual from the broadcast vs someone used a tool like youtube-dl download the raw digital version from online on the bbc?
Also lets Gary’s taped copy cuts out at 10 mins early vs Pedro’s copy that captures the full 2 hour show. Both are available online… do we capture them both or should we just capture one generic version that matches the complete broadcast? Hence the broadcast release always has a single source of truth that is stored on MB and peoples individual copies no matter how different are just really the single source of truth?
We have events for concerts, can’t it be used for broadcasts, as the single source of truth?
And for studio recording sessions, etc. Why not?
BTW, can you briefly explain what is an essential mix broadcast?
A radio playlist of record tracks?
Sorry if I sound like I didn’t understand anything. That’s quite the case.
For me what really counts to set in MB is the releases (and the concerts, events), the creations that are released.
Not the endless repeating list of what records this radio played every day of its existence.
And for the radio creations themselves, I think there is events.
And if they release it for download (not using programs like youtube-dl because then it’s like when you record the radio on a tape) then we have a release.
If a youtube-dl bootleg is widely publicly made available and notorious, maybe a bootleg release can be added…