Renaming: 'Keith Jarrett Trio' -> 'Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette'

artist-credit
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f98cd72aa48>

#1

I just stumbled across the different ways releases are filed for this trio and the differences of mention the shortage ‘Keith Jarrett Trio’ on the albums itself:

album artist are those three musicians which are file also under 'Keith Jarrett Trio:
https://musicbrainz.org/artist/19e48a4b-7aff-479…

Common for all albums is that the term ‘Keith Jarrett Trio’ is not used on the front cover, in most cases it is a shortage on the edge with the catalog-no.

However, int the examples (Standards, Vol. 1) the Trio-shortage is not mentioned at all:

Here is another example (After the Fall) without any ‘Keith Jarrett Trio’ reference at all:
https://musicbrainz.org/release/01dd675f-42ae-4ace-a7d9-cfe4ad5428c8 .
However it is file with ‘Keith Jarrett Trio’ .

Same here (Yesterdays): https://musicbrainz.org/release/559606f8-a420-43cf-a3df-93f4b2c6048f

Common to all releases ‘Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette’ are listed explicit in that order at the front, so I’d suggest to use the long form ‘Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette’ in all cases to file it at the same place.

Before renaming the artist (releases and recordings) I’d like to get some opinions .


#2

Do you mean to rename the artist or the artist credits? and do you mean to use “Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette” as one artist or three separate artists?


#3

Whatever the trio entity is named (Keith Jarrett Trio, Jarrett-Peacock-DeJohnette Trio, Standards Trio, … all seem to be used), I think it should be credited wherever appropriate, probably as well as the individuals. In the original release of Standards Vol. 1 I wouldn’t necessarily expect it to be named because that album marked their formation, but still useful to credit it IMO.


#4

I mean to add every single artist as album artist in one release, which I own here at home .

I don’t want to create yet another name for the “trio” .

Afterwards it would be propagated / copied to the tracks and recordings (checkbox) and release groups (checkbox) as well to get a consistant naming, ordering of all their releases.
My impression is that the “Trio” really wants to emphasize the single members as well by not using the shortages (Keit Jarrett Trio or Standard Trio …) on all cover pages


#5

I’m not sure I understand the exact proposal but I would say that:

  • This particular trio should have its own artist entry as a group, and the examples above should be attributed to that group
  • The best name for that artist is probably “Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette” as it is the most consistently used
  • If the existing Keith Jarrett Trio artist entity is renamed, Somewhere Before should be moved to another artist (either a new Keith Jarrett Trio entity, or Keith Jarrett credited as Keith Jarrett Trio).

#6

I try to make it more clear. I consider the following steps:

  1. Checking all releases for album artists and exchanging “Keith Jarret Trio” with three artists on the releaseinfo tab
  2. Check the box to copy this to the release group as well
  3. on the last page of every release check to copy the artist to the recordings as well

Results:
I leave the artist record of "Keith Jarret Trio untouched, but at the end of the process it should loose a lot or all relationships to releases/release groups.
Every single musician instead will have those relationship which fits to the naming of the covers itself.

Technically it is ok, I think.
However, it is very likely that there people who favorite the “Keith Jarrett Trio”-naming approach, who I’m going to annoy.
Hence I to read some statements,comments,opinions.


#7

So there are three options:

A separate artist, “Keith Jarret Trio”.
A separate artist, but renamed as “Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette”.
No separate artist at all, but albums credited to three artists, Keith, Gary and Jack.

I think if the trio is a consistent one, as it seems to be, the second choice might actually make more sense (a bit like the “Crosby, Stills & Nash” grouping).


#8

Hmmh, that would “invent” another synonym for the three.

At discogs we also the “Keith Jarrett Trio” https://www.discogs.com/artist/276242-Keith-Jarrett-Trio.
At miscbrainz right now as well.

Would it be a compromise to introduce an alias “Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette” with an apropiate sort name ?


#9

AFAIK the group are usually referred to as the Keith Jarrett Trio, sometimes as the Keith Jarrett Standards Trio, I’d be against changing the artist name.


#10

Hmm, I could implent a local solution (import rule with beets) an leave the different namings and relationships untouched.

Anyway, to learn something by this discussion:

Does this have any meaning in this context ?

“In general, you should just enter the artist(s) as shown on the release (see the guidelines for artist credits).”
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release
with https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Artist_Credits

My favorite examples for comparison



#11


No Keith Jarret Trio on the cover at all


#12

I would definitely use all 3 names as the credit for all these. If they’re generally “trio releases”, though, it still probably makes sense to have the three names be a credit for the trio.


#13

Ok, most releases are linked to the KJT

Right now there seems to be just three with credits to the three musicians

https://musicbrainz.org/taglookup?tag-lookup.artist=Keith+Jarrett+AND+Gary+Peacock+AND+Jack+DeJohnette&tag-lookup.release=*&tag-lookup.tracknum=&tag-lookup.track=&tag-lookup.duration=&tag-lookup.filename=

The KJT has already aliases to the three names

I’m going to touch all relases of the KJT and add as a credit “Keith…Gary…Jack”, but not copy it to release goup or recordings ?


#14

Except that on albums they are almost always listed by their names, and this is probably their intention. So I would favour

(with aliases for the other names).


#15

Do you agree with that:


#16

Why create a new artist? Shouldn’t this be merged with https://musicbrainz.org/artist/19e48a4b-7aff-4794-a76f-1e7ed20caa4e ?


#17

There is at least one Release by “Keith Jarret Trio”.

The course of action taken seems dependent on where the Release Artist(s) name is taken from.
And that needs to be clear in the Style Guidelines.


#18

hey, that is a good one. I didn’t know that !

But “afortunately” it refers on a different trio:
|drums: |Paul Motian (US jazz drummer, percussionist & composer)|
||bass: |Charlie Haden|
|piano: |Keith Jarrett|

discogs-solution for this naming-clutter is mixing both:

Keith Jarrett Trio
Aliases:
Keith Jarrett / Gary Peacock / Jack DeJohnette
Members:
Charlie Haden, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette, Keith Jarrett, Paul Motian
Variations:
Viewing All | Keith Jarrett Trio
The Keith Jarrett Trio

Not funny imho …


#19

I don’t know.
see the different members of “Keith Jarrett Trio” like

|drums: |Paul Motian (US jazz drummer, percussionist & composer)|
||bass: |Charlie Haden|
|piano: |Keith Jarrett|


#20

Ok, I applied it to the following releases (release goup and recordings as well)

beet ls -a Keith Jarrett Trio -f ‘$mb_albumid $album’

ab222a5f-323f-4bfe-8a61-b179fd8e0872 Changeless
b9f2e048-44e3-4998-b1f3-0ea31488949c Somewhere
7f1e1edf-e18f-473c-8ba2-263919676305 Standards in Norway
09e9d586-92e8-342a-8d8d-547b506d291e Standards Live
10315e81-eb2f-40ac-9e3f-18d1693af8f7 Standards, Volume 2
7421c2c7-56fc-4838-8c85-a78a81c0fffb Still Live
2c7b284d-165b-4e15-8eee-31101b5c913e Tribute
6815c7e8-b3b1-4290-a133-b62963359192 Yesterdays

beet ls -a Peacock jarrett dejohnette -f ‘$mb_albumid $album’
6b4c6d8a-e33a-47c5-b196-6a4a0628c599 Standards, Volume 1
01dd675f-42ae-4ace-a7d9-cfe4ad5428c8 After the Fall