I had a sense that ‘nuevo flamenco’ might be a bad and direct transformation from the English ‘new flamenco’.
Just curious, how do you say ‘new shoes’ in Spanish?
In my personal sheet I do have info on some variants of genres that I have actually encountered in the wild.
After this genre project is completed, and when there is some feature in MusicBrainz/Picard to handle genre aliases I’ll see if I can share a comprehensive list of those too.
I now see that wikidata also has a listing of aliases. (Also known as)
That could be a useful source if MusicBrainz is going to manage aliases also?
I think it’s actually based on the “Nuevos Medios” label that kinda coined the term But it kinda depends. “New Wave” is “nueva ola”, but if you saw “a new wave” in the ocean or something it would probably be “una ola nueva” (your example would generally be “zapatos nuevos”). I think there’s some degree of semantic difference between the two orders but it’s probably not set in stone
Suppose a user added ‘Aggrotech’ as a tag to a release a year ago.
It would then fall under ‘other tags’, and Picard would only retrieve if ‘folksonomy’ has been enabled.
Since Aggrotech has now been added to the genre database, will the earlier added tag now automatically be found under ‘genre’, and not under ‘other/folksonomy’ anymore?
Yes, it’s still the same list of tags for each entity. The genres are a whitelist on top of that. You can see this at https://musicbrainz.org/tag/aggrotech
Thanks, that’s great.
And it also means it’s probably important to get the already present aliases renamed to their ‘preferred’ genre name and spelling?
So that any existing ‘other tags’ entries such as e.g.
‘new flamenco’, flamenco nuevo’, ‘novo flamenco’ etc. all get renamed to ‘nuevo flamenco’?
‘jazz-rock’ to ‘jazz rock’, ‘club-house’ to ‘club’, etc. etc.
Is it feasable that can be done?
I’ve gone through the list now, added a fair amount of new genres (probably way over half). The rest are either stuff I wasn’t sure about whether they fit our genre structure (like some of the classical bits), stuff that is niche enough I’m not confident adding it (like zolo - yes, I know I added hopepunk, but if we want less of those cases rather than more then I want those smaller ones to be researched a bit), stuff that I didn’t know what to name, stuff that seems to be synonymous with genres we already have, or if not then it’s ambiguous (e.g. trancecore - electronicore), and probably stuff I just overlooked because there’s so many genres there
We can’t rename people’s tags, because they are meant to be personal. But we could look into this at some point to at least make it easier for a specific user to change their own:
That said, once we have aliases it should theoretically just work ™. But yeah, no promises about when that is.
There is an important difference between Hopepunk and Zolo:
I am not able to find a single release that is labeled as Hopepunk on any respected music website.
My opinion remains that it may perhaps be a book (literary) genre, not a music genre.
(it’s probably not a real problem, until an optimistic religious punker/editor notices it and decides to select it )
Zolo has 27 pages of releases on RYM:
You are right about Trancecore vs. Electronicore
They can be considered the same genre with a different name.
Here the interim score, there are now 146 genres left from my list to add or further evaluate:
acoustic texas blues adult contemporary adult oriented rock afro-cuban afro-cuban jazz algorave american folk music appalachian music aria ashkenazi music avant-folk bakersfield sound balkan brass band balkan pop ballet beatdown hardcore bedroom pop black ambient black 'n' roll boy band brazilian classical music britfunk british blues british folk rock broken transmission brutal prog byzantine chant byzantine music calypso jazz cambodian classical cantata caucasian folk music cello concerto cello sonata celtic folk music celtic metal chamber folk chamber jazz chamber music chillstep chinese classical choral choral symphony concerto concerto grosso contemporary country country gospel country rap country soul countrypolitan cuban charanga cuban rumba cumbia argentina cumbia mexicana cumbia peruana cyber metal digital cumbia disco rap early music electric texas blues epic collage étude euro-house euro-techno euro-trance experimental pop flashcore freestyle funaná gamelan garage rock revival girl group gogo greek entechno hardcore hi-tech psytrance indian classical indigenous music jam band jangle pop jazz pop juju kaseko korean classical music latin american classical music latin disco latin r&b latin rap madrigal malagasy music mande music mass merseybeat mizrahi music molam motet musette música criolla peruana música gaúcha neoclassical darkwave occitan folk music operetta oratorio ottoman classical overtone singing overture persian classical philippine classical piano blues piano concerto piano rock piano sonata plainsong pop folk pop reggae post-punk revival progressive breaks psychedelia psychedelic funk psychedelic soul reggae fusion rembetika renaissance music romantic music samba soul sea shanties sephardic music sertanejo de raiz sonata song cycle songhai music southern hip-hop spiritual swing revival swingbeat symphonic poem tex-mex thai classical traditional pop tuvan throat singing us power metal violin concerto violin sonata volksmusik world fusion zolo
Quickly reviewing the list, and making the post into a wiki so others can edit it:
acoustic texas blues adult contemporary (adult oriented rock) there as aor afro-cuban afro-cuban jazz [algorave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorave) american folk music appalachian music aria ashkenazi music avant-folk bakersfield sound balkan brass band balkan pop ballet beatdown hardcore bedroom pop black ambient black 'n' roll boy band brazilian classical music (britfunk) there as brit funk british blues british folk rock broken transmission brutal prog byzantine chant byzantine music calypso jazz cambodian classical cantata caucasian folk music cello concerto cello sonata celtic folk music celtic metal chamber folk chamber jazz chamber music chinese classical choral choral symphony concerto concerto grosso contemporary country country gospel - https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-1845 countrypolitan cuban charanga cuban rumba - https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-1843 cumbia argentina cumbia mexicana cumbia peruana digital cumbia disco rap - https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-1847 early music electric texas blues epic collage étude euro-house euro-techno euro-trance experimental pop flashcore freestyle [gamelan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamelan) garage rock revival girl group (gogo) there as go-go (greek entechno) there as éntekhno hardcore hi-tech psytrance indian classical indigenous music jam band jangle pop jazz pop (juju) there as jùjú (kaseko) there, plus also kasékò which is apparently different korean classical music latin american classical music latin disco latin r&b latin rap [madrigal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrigal) malagasy music mande music - https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-1844 mass (merseybeat) AFAICT this is an alias for beat music? mizrahi music - certainly legitimate but nobody seems to agree on what to call it (molam) there as mor lam motet musette música criolla peruana música gaúcha (neoclassical darkwave) there as neoclassical dark wave since we have dark wave occitan folk music operetta oratorio ottoman classical overtone singing - this is arguably not a genre in itself but just a singing style overture persian classical philippine classical piano blues piano concerto piano rock piano sonata plainsong pop folk pop reggae post-punk revival progressive breaks psychedelia psychedelic funk psychedelic soul reggae fusion (rembetika) there as rebetiko renaissance music romantic music samba soul (sea shanties) there as sea shanty sephardic music (sertanejo de raiz) there as sertanejo raiz which seems a lot more common online sonata song cycle songhai music southern hip-hop - we have a lot more uses as dirty south, unsure if 100% equivalent? spiritual swing revival (swingbeat) seems the same as new jack swing? symphonic poem tex-mex - Wikipedia says this is an alias for tejano, RYM says it's tejano + roots rock thai classical traditional pop tuvan throat singing us power metal violin concerto violin sonata volksmusik world fusion zolo - some sources suggest this is only considered a thing in RYM
There are good comments in there.
What is a good way to proceed?
- I could post an updated list (and I am also considering taking all classical-related tags out of it to create a new discussion post on that matter specifically)
- add comments into the above ‘wiki’ post. Which I am afraid has the risk of making it quite messy.
I see @chaban is still going strong on adding genres in the ticket system. (thnx Chaban!)
I’ll wait at least till he has run out of steam before I update my list…
Following the comments in that post I have updated and pruned the list.
I also removed all classical genres from it and will post those in a separate topic.
Here are my comments on some comments in that post:
“Gamelan is the traditional ensemble music of the Javanese, Sundanese, and Balinese peoples of Indonesia”
That seems to qualify it as a genre.
“Merseybeat is a light, highly melodic style of Beat Music”
So it’s a form of beat music with a distinct sound/composition style. That seems to qualify it as a genre on it’s own.
quote: “certainly legitimate but nobody seems to agree on what to call it”
Other names that I found were:
Oriental jewish music
Mizrahi jewish music
Eastern jewish music
Since mizrahi only means ‘eastern’, perhaps ‘Mizrahi jewish’ is better.
I replaced it accordingly.
As I understand it, Tejano is folk oriented, and Tex-mex is rock oriented.
That makes their sound distinguishable.
If so, it qualifies as a separate genre.
It seems valid to have some doubts on this one.
But besides RYM having 1299 releases being tagged as zolo, I see there are also releases in MusicBrainz’ database that are tagged with zolo.
So I’ve left it in the list for now.
Here is the updated list:
(only 97 more to go
Acoustic texas blues Adult contemporary Afro-cuban Afro-cuban jazz Afrobeat Afrobeats Amapiano American folk Ashkenazi Avant-folk Bakersfield sound Balkan brass band Balkan pop Beatdown hardcore Bedroom pop Biguine Bitpop Black ambient Black 'n' roll Boy band British blues British folk rock British rhythm & blues Broken transmission Brutal prog Calypso jazz Caucasian folk Celtic folk Celtic metal Chamber folk Chamber jazz Chanson Contemporary country Countrypolitan Cuban charanga Cumbia argentina Cumbia mexicana Cumbia peruana Digital cumbia Dirty south Electric texas blues Electroacoustic Epic collage Euro-house Euro-techno Euro-trance Experimental pop Flashcore Freestyle Gamelan Garage rock revival Girl group Habanera Hi-tech psytrance Indian classical Indigenous Jam band Jangle pop Jazz pop Latin disco Latin freestyle Latin r&b Latin rap Malagasy Merseybeat Mizrahi jewish Música criolla peruana Música gaúcha Neoclassical darkwave New orleans r&b Occitan folk Piano blues Piano rock Poetry Pop folk Pop reggae Post-punk revival Progressive breaks Psychedelia Psychedelic funk Psychedelic soul Reggae fusion Samba-jazz Samba soul Sephardic Songhai Spiritual Swing revival Tex-mex Third stream Traditional pop Tuvan throat singing US power metal Vaudeville blues Volksmusik World fusion Zolo
I noticed that ‘chanson’ is called ‘chanson française’ on MusicBrainz.
It would probably be good to change it to ‘chanson’.
Both because it’s the most commonly used name for the genre, and because it is used way more often as a tag in MusicBrainz itself:
Well, us French, never use just “chanson” (=“song”) to designate this genre.
Yet the international world, and the overwhelming majority of MusicBrainz users use ‘chanson’.
Also, there are chansonniers that are not French, and sing ‘chansons’ in another language then French.
Jacques Brel is one famous example.
He’s Belgian, and also sings chansons in the Dutch language.
The same goes for quite a few singers in the Netherlands who are Dutch, and sing songs in Dutch that are considered to be ‘chansons’.
If I am correct in what I just read on wikipedia, the French (these days?) use ‘chanson française’ also to separate songs sung in French from songs sung in English.
So that makes the ‘française’ part referring mostly to the language that the song is sung in, and not so much the composition or lyrics style. (i.e. musical genre)
It looks like it would be a good idea to have both ‘chanson française’ and ‘chanson’ added.
Yes. When we’ll have relationships we could even link both.
I’ve added some more genres to the list of proposed genres to be added.
I think there is an existing genre that should be written differently:
There now exists ‘Runo song’
The genre is originally named ‘Runolaulu’
You can find it translated to English as ‘Rune song’ here and there.
My suggestion is to use either the original name ‘Runolaulo’, or do a full translation to English and make it ‘Rune song’.
It’s also originally named regilaul in Estonia (same genre, different Finnic language). Since we don’t have aliases yet, I went with what Wikidata has, but it seems it’s also a standard translation for it (sometimes with a hyphen, see Conference on Finnic runo-song tradition | Studia Metrica et Poetica)
Ah yes, the more websites you consult, the more variations you get.
It just felt wrong to me, but that was probably very subjective.
One thing that might be of interest, especially until we get genre aliases: I did some work and got a seemingly working implementation of this ticket (that was supposed to happen in 2011, whoops):
That should allow people to change their tags from their name for a genre to the “standard” name in the genre whitelist, if they don’t want to wait for aliases. It should, of course, also allow them to change it back later once we have aliases, if they really wanted to have, say, “hip-hop” rather than “hip hop”.
No promises when this will get released, mind! But I thought it’d be of interest to people in this thread.