Matching fingerprints with breaks

(extended) or (long version) or (1996 longer version). It all works. Just something that flags up - “Hey, did you spot this before?” And it will make other people share those extra 14 seconds. :grinning:

I bet some obscure Dire Straits fan club page or forum has a long lost discussion on it somewhere…

It is this kinda stuff that MB lets us find. Cataloguing my music for MB has lead to so many discoveries like this for me. I now hear so much more of my music detail. Rediscovering some albums in a new light.

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Unfortunately I found nothing. If it was discussed, it was probably before the age of online forums. But it was noticed in discussions about the 1996 remasters as a whole → Dire Straits: Remastered CDs vs originals ? | Page 12 | Steve Hoffman Music Forums

(1996 longer version) sounds good. This highlights that this recording was changed very early on.

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Skipping Record

Finally: A Skipping record (within the first two minutes of a track)

There are actually two skips on my quite worn record of Live at the Woodstock Festival by Ravi Shankar.

  • The first one at about 14s (only background noise and faint applause - before the first word is spoken and no sound of an instrument to be heard then)
  • The second is about 1:12 (kind of intro,¹ the skip hits the end of a note - I have not noticed even one skip until I compared the fingerprints)

¹) the begin of this work is probably not called an “intro” - apologies for my lack of knowledge of Indian classical music

The fingerprint of the skipping record was compared to the most often submitted fingerprint² of this track (210). It’s most likely a CD version according to metadata submitted to the AcoustID.

²) EDIT: verified fingerprint for CD version

Each time 15 steps are missing, a full rotation of the record takes 1.8 seconds (33⅓ rotations per minute) → 1 step = 0.12 secs

I also looked in an audio editor:

For the next half second a long wave disturbance follows the jump, but that’s about 15Hz and should be beyond audibility. Listening; The frequency of the skip is lower than the following crack (right channel only) but not much louder.

The second skip looks similar. The condition improves after the first minutes and it looks worse than the record actually plays → see runout images :slight_smile:

EDIT: missing rotation, measured with Audacity:


Unsurprisingly, there is a difference of exactly 1.8 seconds = 1 rotation with 33⅓ rotations per minute.

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What is also interesting to me on that example is the “noise” from the worn out record. Even where it is matching up the black is not as solid as it could be.

There’s not much to hear in the first 14 seconds, other than the crackling and crashing on my record (if you like to hear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-Nr-4ProU)
There are other section with clearly visible differences, but I think, it’s similar enough to be the same recording.

Another vinyl from which I submitted a fingerprint (perfect condition, dubious source) vs the same fingerprint as above → Compare fingerprints #94726355 and #12747349 | AcoustID (no audible differences to my vinyl, except…) matches between -6 and -13

EDIT: would have been better vs mine → Compare fingerprints #94710404 and #94726355 | AcoustID
matches at 8, 18-20, 30-31

When I do record rips you have to have that sound. It is not vinyl without hearing a needle drop.

The main reason I like seeing your AcoustIDs it helps me recognising other vinyl compares. Learning the percentage of black that needs to be common.

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Not necessarily if the records were treated well. And after washing, some of my old records play just as flawless as new records. (mostly those I have rarely played, of course - my favourite albums do not sound like new :wink: )

But scratches have little impact on fingerprints. Some of the crackling vinyls submit fingerprints to the same acoustID as the files from the CD. Most of these disturbances are too short (some milliseconds) to appear in the fingerprint.

The differences have other reasons - probably mastering - and it’s most noticeable on vinyls, Also different speed - It can also be caused by incorrectly set up players, but in many cases it is already the mastering.¹

¹) In case of Ravi Shankar, my record plays at the same speed as a CD, but the downloaded vinyl rip plays at a significant higher speed. This might be caused by the player, but the track, ripped from the YouTube video linked above, submits to the same acoustID as the download.

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I have added a figure showing the time difference when skipping one rotation.

King and Lionheart versions:

The beginning of the 2012 international release version was shortened compared to the original 2011 Icelandic release. This is most clearly visible in the waveforms:

Of course, this results in “matching fingerprints with a brake”:

What is most confusing is that the original version was shorter than the shortened version. This is because the song actually ends at 4:20 (International) or 4:26 (Icelandic), but there are still distant sounds that can be faded at will.

What makes it even more complicated: The 10th anniversary edition version (denoted as “2011 Icelandic version”) uses the original beginning but also the longer ending of the international version, making it the longest version released.

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