How to the track list when the menus and sectors are arranged differently on DVD?

MusicBrainz Style
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Hi all.

  1. The order of appearance that can be seen in the DVD screen menu (VTS_01_0.VOB).
  2. Electronic menu that looks like “Playback ==> Title” of VLC media player.
    These two arrays are different from each other.

In my personal impression, I feel that the screen menu honestly reflects the intention of the artist than the order of the sectors.
Because the former is invisible and can not be easily confirmed without using a little specialized tool.
However, the latter can be confirmed at a glance by everyone.

Which order should I write in the track list?
Should I be 1? or 2?

What do you think all?
thank you.

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I have also puzzled over this. Also what happens with hidden Easter eggs, or the alternate audio stream which may offer stereo or 5.1 versions? DVDs get much messier than a straight CD.

I have other confused options. A DVD with a single concert on it, I rip from my disk as a single file. Is that listed in MB as a single live concert or do I sit with stopwatch and work out where the separate tracks are?

Personally I think the most sensible is as you suggest. 1 - attempt to mirror the “artist’s intent”. If they designed a menu to show on screen then that is how they wanted the disc cut up. Hidden tracks still need to be added to that list though, just like with a CD.

The other area I keep in mind is that MB is a database that wants to cross reference everything. So this means separately listing as many tracks as possible. With performer details etc all available. This is more logical to follow that on screen menu that what something like VLC can see.

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It’s mostly this yes.
And then, for hidden stuff, you can use physical order instead of anything else.

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Hi IvanDobsky,jesus2099,and all.

thanks for Suggestion.

I was encouraged by everyone’s consent.
I would like to describe the description on the menu screen that should indicate the artist’s intention.

Also, I did not notice when posting this question, but I fully agree with the opinion that as you said carefully.

Hidden information that can not easily be seen on the menu (Easter eggs and like these), we should be added as much as possible.
I will try to describe these hidden informations as necessary.

Below, as an example, I will show the problem that I currently face.
Region code is not set for this DVD - R, there is no layer break.
CSS, and other copy controls are also not added DVD-R.
Therefore, my conduct is legitimate.
This DVD - R has the following directory structure.

UNTITTLED_PROJECT
│
├Menus
│└─Title Menu
│ └─English
│ ├Menue 1 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ ├Menue 2 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ ├Menue 3 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ ├(snip)
│ ├Menue 9 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ └Menue 10 00:00:00 0.01MB
├VTS 1
│ └─English
│ ├Root Menue 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ ├Menue 2 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ └Menue 3 00:00:20 0.58MB #A
├VTS 2
│ └─English
│ ├Root Menue 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ └Menue 2 00:00:00 0.01MB
├VTS 3
│ └─English
│ ├Root Menue 00:00:00 0.01MB
│ └Menue 2 00:00:00 0.01MB
├Main Movie
│ └─Title 3 01:04:29 3,521MB #B
└Extras
├─Title 1 00:03:47 206MB #C
├─Title 2 00:09:27 516MB #D
└─Title 4 00:03:13 174MB #E

#B-#E is displayed in the menu.
The menu is #A (VTS_01_0.VOB), which is 20 seconds.
We input this hidden file #A at the top of the chapter list.
and then #B-#E in the order shown on the #A screen.
(not Sort by Title 1,2,3,4.)

May we do this procedure?

So, Related doubts.
Does the DVDs “Disc IDs” not exist?

Picard 2.1.2 for Windows could not be detected.
Are there any types of DVDs that can be detected?
Or is it all impossible for DVDs?

Please let me know if anyone knows.

I’m not a computer engineer, so I might be saying misguided.
Unlike CD, DVD has no TOC.
In my delusion, if Picard uses a hash of “VIDEO_TS.IFO”, if possible to uniquely identify a variety of DVDs?

And More!

I agree with Ivandobsky’s opinion very much.
I also wanted to write it separately by each song.
As a matter of fact, the DVD-R I have at hand now is the official release of the artist.
But its long long live performance is linear like the fan cam which was taken at the outdoor music festival.
No electronic chapters have been struck between songs and songs.

I think it is unkind to cram multiple songs into one box, separated by a tilde or slash.
However, there seems to be a different opinion.
Below is an opinion that contradicts my intentions.
https://musicbrainz.org/edit/59397169

For example, let’s say we have a relatively long MC talk ( master of ceremony ) between a song and a song.
The start point of the MC talk should be different a few seconds by the person who uses the stopwatch.
Therefore, what he is saying is logically correct though it contradicts my intention.

That I admit too.
But what if the MB system has a “NEW box” to enter the total time?
In other words, write one song or MC in one box.
And, we describe to “NEW box” only the total time of that DVD.

If it is possible, I think that would be convenient for everyone in a simpler.
Is it may difficult to renovate the system?

Anyway, perhaps, the demand of the system renovation is not to discuss it in this place.
But I’m still a beginner - Trust Level 1 - and don’t have the experience to commit deeply to the community.
It would be nice if someone in the veterans - Regulars, Leaders - could work together to tell the developers and deepen the discussion.

My mother tongue is not English, so I’m worried whether the choice of words is right.
For example the difference between ‘still’ and ‘yet’ nuances.
There may be many other rude writing styles, but there is no malice. Sorry.

Thank you, everyone, for reading with long time.

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Picard only has a small team working on it. This means it will be a long time until Picard can tag a whole DVD in the same way as a CD. I doubt this is in any plans soon.

At the weekend I made a copy of a DVD from a boxset. I used MakeMKV to convert it. And I could see that this kind of product will drive the choice of what to tag. It did a fine job of locating all the different videos on the disk. It showed me a menu like in your example.

It also showed the added complexity as one music file on a CD just has one choice of audio track. DVDs get quickly complex with subtitles, 2.0 or 5.1 audio options, alternate languages, etc. Thankfully a music DVD is usually simpler than a film, but still leads to complex choices.

There is also the problem that the package for a DVD is not as detailed as for a music CD. Music CDs always list all the tracks and give us details that we can put into the database. This is not the same for a DVD.

Whatever is done is a compromise.

Just to add a bit more: When I look at your example DVD menu there is a lot on there that us humans would never bother with. So there needs to be a point when we list the actual videos worth watching and not the handful of adverts and company logos at the start.

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For what it’s worth, here is how I usually rip chaptered concert DVD.
On can submit AcoustID from that.

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Handy - and bookmarked. That is converting the video to audio tracks. The next step along from what the OP was asking, as they are wanting to getting the video as video tracks. You’ve taken those tracks and split and converted them further.

Does DVD Decrypter work on BluRays as well? I have wondered how to get the 5.1 surround tracks from my video disks to sit as 5.1 FLAC audio files alongside my CD rips.

Ripping those video disks to video files or audio files split at chapter marks converts that big single video file into lots of separate files. That seems to better match the aims of MB. MB wants to know which tracks were played at the concert. But clearly takes much more processing effort.

Puzzling as to a “standard” answer

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This particular tool does not work with Blu‐ray discs.
I don’t have a PC Blu‐ray drive so I just take chapter lengths from my TV Blu‐ray player.

The OP DVD has no chapters and @ashes_2 asked if we could split it in MB’s release to do as if it was chaptered, to make a clearer tracklist.
To which I answered we IMO shouldn’t…

But we can still link that big concert recording to the multiple works…

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On Music CDs MB is pretty specific as to how it puts track lengths together from the track data.

So yeah, I see what you mean. Chapters are nice for us, but technically the MB database will want the “concert video” listed as a single item. It is a single item on the physical disk. Yet it would be so much more useful in chapters.

It is a bit like an old audiobook. Older audiobooks would be just one long recording. So this means just a single “track” in MB with no way to know where the chapters are.

There is nothing that really fits the way that MB looks at audio.

This seems to point towards the need for a “Video Track” type that would be different to an “Audio Track”. If a database type was developed to allow the “Video Track” to have extra data like chapters listed then that would seem a logical expansion.

Currently a “Track” in MB gets converted to a “Track, Video” with a little tick box. I wonder if there is any way to then expand that to allow for the extra data of a video. Audio types (mono, 2.0, 5.1, etc); Video Type (mp2, mp4); Subtitles (languages); Chapter times; Chapter titles

I’m over thinking this again. :smiley:

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I am not sure I understand what you mean.
We already are able to render chapters when they exist.

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But different audio types (especially 2.0 vs 5.1, but potentially mono too) tends to mean different recordings, so you need separate tracks for those. Subtitles don’t matter for MB purposes, I think.

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For our reference, I will write my experience below.
Anime DVDs are very expensive in Japan.
So I once imported the French version of “Neon Genesis Evangelion” from Amazon UK.
Unfortunately, I can not understand French at all.
So, this purchase was a kind of bet.
Luckily, the product included three kinds of 2.0ch and 5.1ch sounds, and three kinds of subtitles were able to be selected.
The three kinds are Japanese, French and English.
Is this information really unnecessary?

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Hi all

“standard” answer, in principle, the presence or absence of electric chapters.
At least for the moment I also agree that it will have to be so.
The reason is that AcoustID is in chapter units.
In the case of DVD, for each chapter which is typed in the VOB file, it cuts out to the minimum unit using some rip tool.
Throw out files that end in 0 seconds.
Send the remaining AcoustID of meaningfully played files.
This ensures the uniqueness of the chapter.

@IvanDobsky
For your reference, when I want to add an electronic chapter to MP4 I am using Drax.
In the case of BD, it may be useful to use BDinfo(Releases · UniqProject/BDInfo · GitHub) and tsMuxeR(tsMuxeR 2.6.12 / 2023-11-26 Nightly Free Download - VideoHelp).
In addition, there may be cases where it is necessary to charge paid software.
Please consider yourself.

In the following example given by @jesus2099, it may that it is an example that carefully chapters are applied to a long video.

And what I said a few days ago means I want to divert the usage of the Chapter Box in exchange for recording only the total time without using stopwatch.
Because it thought that it was difficult to connect with one song of another CDs.
However, my worry may not have been necessary.

@jesus2099

But we can still link that big concert recording to the multiple works…

What kind of operation can we accomplish the purpose?

thankyou all your times.

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For what it’s worth, almost all concert DVD and Blu‐ray are well chaptered.

You can do so by cliking this in your release page’s sidebar: Edit relationships.

Here is an example of three song recording in one track: 嘆十聲／天涯歌女／四季歌.

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Let see … unnn … may …

Tracklist ==> entering someone Title ==> [edit] ==> Recording Details ; Relationships ==> add “recording of:” ; “work”.

programmers who designed this DB system can do a pretty precious job!!
It looks like a luxury handmade watch made in Switzerland!?
My head gets cranky.

With my current ability, it seems better not to hand out to carelessly.
But I took screenshots and bookmarked.
I was deeply moved by such a kind and detailed explanation.
Thank you as always always, every every day.
But are you sleeping properly? I am a little worried.

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Well, I’ll write what I thought in wild guess from now on.
I’m sorry if you know this.

We see the various extensions of MP4, MKV, VOB, TS, M2TS, and anything else.
They show the file format, but it’s actually just a container rather than a pure voice-only file like WAV.
The video and audio in it, and also subtitles depending on the container format.
The audio can then be included by synchronizing multiple voices into a single video.

For example, 2.0 ch and 5.1 ch, English, Spanish, Japanese, or audio commentary that the musician himself would respond to the interview while watching the video.
So if we rip each chapter with the appropriate settings, we can keep a single video and multiple voices in one container file.
The media player must be compatible with the audio switch.
Whatever OS you are using, VLC MediaPlayer would be a good choice in most cases.

If it is windows, I think MPC-HC or MPC-BE is useful.

The presence or absence of the following perceptions may not be shared among us.
Or maybe a little bit of a gap is occurring. So I imagined.

We can save multiple voices in one file.

To see what is in the pie dough, “MediaInfo” is useful.
( https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download )
We can also see that with apples, blueberries, oranges, and sometimes bananas or avocados are in.

Thanks for your time.

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