Handling name of transgender artist

Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f4197ae19a8> #<Tag:0x00007f4197ae18b8>

Proposed Guideline versionA2:
Where an Artist has demonstrated a substantial desire to have a previous name removed from their products on the basis that it does them significant harm, such as unwanted close association with a deadname, that unwanted name is to be stored as a “search hint” Alias and the Artist’s desired name used on all of their products.

If the Artist wants the name removed completely and not re-entered in the db then please contact an administrator.
end of guideline

Back office process versionA2: The administrator will, in cases such as deadnaming, remove the name from the db and offer the option of the Artist sending a monthly automated email to MB asking that any instance of the deadname be removed from the db, and explain that the automated email is necessary as MB does not keep a list of names removed from the db.

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The artist already has a way to keep an eye on the DB, with no extra admin required - they just have to make an account, and hit ‘subscribe’ on the artist MBID.

The person would be asking (explicitly or by implication) that the deadname be removed and not re-entered.*

Having to keep manually checking that a deadname had not re-appeared would be a stress, and I think an unreasonable one given that an semi-automated method would appear to be easily constructed.

*The person is asking that the deadname be removed with the goal that the deadname not appear now or in the future.
They are not asking that the deadname be removed for 1 second/1 day/1year/1decade before replacement.

“Look we’ll take your deadname down but it could be totally up to you whether it is re-added almost immediately. Yeah there are anti-trans activists who go round trying to out transgender people but thats your problem, do not try to make it ours”, appears unlikely to be received with gratitude by many transgender artists or their supporters.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea, but I don’t think having an admin check monthly emails (essentially, have them check subscriptions on behalf) is realistic. This whole discussion needed admin/mod input about a hundred posts ago but MB doesn’t even have staff resource for that minimum.

This is the reality of massive global and community driven databases. I think artists would be very grateful for a guideline that allows them to take control. Wikipedia is well known enough now for people to understand that the internet is something that you sometimes have to keep an eye on.

But by all means, suggest away. I just think a guideline is the part that’s more likely to happen :+1:

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Maybe you’re right.
I’m no coder.

Maybe an automated monthly email could auto activate a search for a Artistdeadname and then have an Admin notified only if there is a match found.
Which would result in the same amount of work for the Admin as when a Artist reports that their deadname has been re-added.

The extra cost to MB would seem to be in setting up and maintaining the “email-> autosearch-> notify admin if instance found” process. This one process would work for all artists seeking removal of re-added deadnames (and for any other instances where a name needs to be kept out of the db).

As I said I’m no coder but it would seem a cool thing to create. I’m thinking that MB IRC would be the place to see if this kite gets any love.

47 posts were split to a new topic: Deadnames and deadnaming

This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.

I’ve been gone from editing for a while, but now I’m back. Unfortunately, it seems like that there are no editing guidelines yet regarding this issue.
The one thing that everyone agreed with from what I can tell is that changing the name on release groups and recordings is fine. That’s what I will do for now then. I expect those edits to go through unopposed.

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As style leader, yes, this is fine - if someone complains, please point them to this statement :slight_smile:

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https://musicbrainz.org/edit/82246296

looks like the digital release with updated metadata issue is back

if i could give my opinion, i personally think someone’s idea from a few months ago isn’t a bad idea for now. we change all credits to the new name and then add an annotation that says “originally credited as ___”. i at least believe all credits should be under the new name, preserving historical names in a database isn’t worth deadnaming over. eventually, i think there should be a way for the system to completely redirect those names. for example, if you searched for patricia taxxon’s deadname, it would come up with her new name and it would be hidden rather than even have to be shown in the system.

i do want to mention that chaban and tigerman325 immediately vote no on all of my edits about deadnames. they haven’t been open to any of my ideas, especially tigerman. every edit, i get a reply with the classic “facts don’t care about your feelings” and it’s incredibly annoying. everyone here should at least try to care about trans people. transphobic ideologies are showing in many of these users.

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Whatever. My points have been no less valid than yours. The only no vote I gave was on the blanket must change every single mention of the deadname. I have no issue with changing the release groups and recordings. But releases are a history point of fact and shouldn’t be retro-actively changed.

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How would that work if you actively remove the aliases?

Obviously the name has to be stored for a redirect to work.

Your words seem contrary to your actions:

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i am not bullying you. i’ve been as polite as possible and i’ve made sure to respect your opinion. you’ve been calling me names and taking this personally when i’m just trying to keep musicbrainz as respectful and accurate as possible. no bullying, just respect.

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i’m removing aliases because deadnames are not aliases. i meant that as an idea for later, because right now the system can’t do my idea of hidden aliases. i would be open to adding the annotations if the credit had changed. that particular artist was okay with having her older work under her deadname, so we don’t need an annotation pointing it out, especially when it was in the wikipedia page right there.

As it stands I am quite happy with leaving the original release as released (with deadname), adding a new release with their real name, and renaming all release groups, works and recordings (which is pretty great). Without needing the artists input.

This in conjunction with the other ‘from the top’ agreement to completely remove the deadname if the artist asks for that seems like a solid base to edit from with minimum argument required .

Just since it’s pretty case by case whether a trans artist actually wants their deadname gone.

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that’s reasonable. i’ll cancel my edits for laura jane grace since it’s still listed on streaming with her deadname Tom Gabel | Spotify

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i feel like there were issues with the duplicate release strategy, both regarding release dates (use original? date artist came out publicly as trans? date the streaming/download page updated?) and the lack of context surrounding the presentation of deadnames on release pages

idk, maybe i just don’t like dupes

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