Confusing Picard: submit cluster as a release scrambles order depending on how items are dropped into the cluster

Picard seems to shuffle the order of tracks in a “Submit Cluster as Release” if some of them have an AcoustID.

Example Bandcamp download of 63 tracks: Free Downloads | Evil Needle

A free package making it easy to test with.

Note all tracks are numbered 1 to 63 in the FLAC tags.
Tags present: Title, Artist, Album, Track Number, Date, Album Artist, Comment

I load into Picard,
Hit a Scan to see where these appear on other compilations.
Dragged everything back to the left and pressed Cluster again to move those matched files down to the cluster again.
Then made sure the sort order was set to track order.
Submit Cluster as Release

This shuffles the track list that is submitted. :thinking: Why it not in order?

Top half counts fine… but this little set at the bottom are shuffled down here. I then noticed the reason why.

These are all the tracks that found a match in the database on my first Scan. Meaning tracks WITH AcoustIDs are shuffled to the bottom of the list.

If I close Picard and start again with only Cluster and Submit Cluster as Release then tracks are submitted in order.

Side notes - I have realised this album is in the database here but without AcoustIDs. I’ll avoid submitting any AcoustIds so you can re-create this if interested. Also now noticed it is one of those ever growing releases as up to 65 tracks now… but that’s a different OT puzzle… This is why my example shows 63 tracks and it is now 65 tracks in the download…

Guess you could recreate this with any set of tracks where some have AcoustIds and others don’t

Sorry no ticket - /reasons :anguished: :zipper_mouth_face:. This post is for curiosity only as I have seen other releases submitted like this and now I know why.


Another example here - - this time the tracks are more mixed up in their order. Less of a logical pattern in that one.

It seems to be very fussy as to the order on how to reproduce this. I thought it had been fixed in v2.11, but still happening.

Drop 65 files into Picard
Scan (this IDs 9 files and pushes them to the right)
Drag those files back and drop them on the cluster
Submit Cluster as Release

Interesting… I fiddled a bit more. This is caused when I drag and drop on top of the Cluster. If I push all the files back into unclustered, then cluster as one there is not an issue.

The issue is happening due to dropping files manually on the cluster. Nothing to do with AcoustID.

Also noted that when I drag and drop a file at a time I can shuffle the track order at the bottom of the list…

That has nothing to do with AcoustIDs actually. The function currently submits the tracks in order of the cluster. When clustering this is ordered by track number. But when adding files manually to the cluster they end up in order added.

The proper solution is I think to always sort tracks in clusters by track no., if present. This won’t work of course if the files don’t have track numbers, but then there is no meaningful order anyway.

Now it would be great if someone would create a ticket.


Yeah, only just worked that bit out experimenting just now. May tweak the thread title again.

The rest of your thoughts there are bang on. It is the invisible ordering of the cluster that has caused it.

What is interesting is attempting to “sort by track no” in the GUI doesn’t make any difference to the submission.

Would be nice if there was an attempt at ordering on discNo\TrackNo if present. Or take the on screen order.

Sorry. I’d explain why I avoid the Ticket system, but it would only annoy people. :anguished:

(post deleted by author)


The problem with not creating a ticket is that you rely on someone else doing that for you. Topics on the forum quickly go out of visibility. I read every Picard related topic on the forums, but often on my mobile. I’m also busy with life and other stuff, and if I’m not able to create said ticket right away I might have forgotten the next day. Once your topic is buried deep in the forums whatever issue you reported is forgotten until someone else stumbles over it by accident (or reports the same issue).

Anyway, I managed to remember about this topic and here we go:

It annoys me anyway. Especially with someone who is otherwise so active here. I don’t know why you take it as granted I will always create the ticket for you. I do it for important issues because I care a lot about Picard and want those to be fixed. I wouldn’t be so strict with a newbie. But from someone like you I really expect better.

You spent a significant time to create the above forum posting. You created a screenshot of Picard, so you definitely were in front of your computer. Creating a ticket would not have been more work at all.

Given that you even can login to the ticket system with your MB account there is really no good excuse. It’s pure stubbornness.

So please, consider submitting a ticket in the future. The ticket also does not need to be perfect. Just let’s make sure thing are actually reported and don’t get lost.


In some defense of IvanDobsky (not sure if he needs that), I can relate to a sentiment (being a user, not a coder myself) that a ‘ticketing system’ is the domain of coders that are fully able to speak ‘that language’.
I’ve also been reluctant to go there for that reason.
(and I also had a less then great experience with one of my first efforts)

Just saying.


Recent and related, @yvanzo has been looking into Jira plugins that could simplify the ticket creation process.

I have my hands full and I feel it may be a bandaid (e.g. users still wouldn’t engage with the ticket process), so I haven’t been championing it, but if there’s anything here that would solve some of your issues @IvanDobsky, please do say so.

This is one of the plugins Yvanzo has been looking at:
As shown in that page, it would allow us to streamline certain ticket types (if that doesn’t address any of your concerns, you can ignore :slight_smile: )

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Sorry, I didn’t mean to annoy anyone with this thread. Sorry if it was taken the wrong way. :worried: I don’t want to dig up the old argument as to why I can’t\won’t post tickets. I’d rather leave that bad experience in the past.

I created this post as I thought someone may be interested in why some releases are submitted with a shuffled track order. I was about to delete it, and then suddenly cracked the puzzle. Literally posted if anyone was interested - I did not expect anyone to do anything with it. I don’t expect people to “write tickets for me”. I just thought someone may be interested.

The last thing I wanted to do was cause this kind of response. Please don’t turn this thread into a conversation about tickets as that is not the point.

Thank you @hiccup for appreciating that we are not all the same.


Much appreciate your response. I had to rant a little, because sometimes it feels a bit much to me. I don’t have massive time for Picard, and I spent a lot of that for answering questions here on the forums and evaluating tickets and bug reports. That leaves often little for actual feature work.

I wrote all about what annoys me in my post above. What I did not write was that I absolutely appreciate everyone who gives feedback here on the forums. And I especially appreciate your feedback, @IvanDobsky , and your work here on the forums, often helping others.

The forum also is the absolute right place to discuss any issues with Picard. Especially if someone is not yet sure if something is indeed a bug or worth a feature request. But in the end if it should end up in Picard someone has to create that ticket.

So if it is just that: please, at least consider going the extra step of creating a ticket. The ticket system doesn’t bite, I promise.

All that is needed is going to the new ticket from, select Picard as a project, enter a summary title and a short description and that’s it. Everything else I’m happy to take care of.


I gather from this thread that it has bitten at least a couple of users :pensive:

@chaban - I do not understand why you needed to do that. :worried: Please delete that extended personal attack. This is a good example of one of the reasons I stay on the outside.

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Closed on request of @IvanDobsky, since the discussion had drifted from the issue to a personal one. Please respect people’s decisions, even if they’re annoying :slight_smile: