Community Cleanup #1: Debussy

Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f0508550988> #<Tag:0x00007f0508550730>


There are two more releases which I was not able to identify:

I’ve put way too much time into them. If anyone succeeds in pinpointing one of them, I would also like to know how this was done, to improve my methods!


On Disc ID page there’s FreeDB ID calculated based on CD TOC. At you can make searches based on the ID. You’ll soon notice that FreeDB returns something that has “Jörg Demus, Tamás Vásáry” on the title. With these performer names you could find something like (durations match).

I guess this was originally added to wrong release group. Based on release group artist someone updated this to have the same artist.


Well done!

Good idea to use the freedb-discid for searching. Didn’t know that trick before. I started to do the changes.

The sad thing is that this might have been much easier to resolve if the musicbrainz edit history would not suffer of dementia. For the original submission I only see “Artist: removed”. Instead of “removed”, I expect to see the original string at least which was there. This really should be improved!


well I’ve gone and actually ordered it now, so in a few weeks we’ll see how matching this disc id is after all :​p

Now, This being musicbrainz, naturally there is edge case detection unit standby,
I have found situation which is between popular music and composition, and, for added effect it’s in Japanese

No don’t run away yet! it’s interesting, I swear.
it is Firebird-Tomita
Right now these are just linked to the generic arranger work,
but I feel that in this case we should err on the side of classical way of doing. This is an arranging of classical pieces for "lots of weird electronic equipment"
Tomita also has arr. credits (see the cover art), further there are more Debussy recordings there
I feel that it would make much more sense to group these on “arranged by Tomita” works than to be scattered around the generic works.
The music is completely recognisable as the original classic works - they simply sound as if “what if Debussy et. al. were composing for 1970’s sci-fi instead” like. :​D




Re: Classical edge case.
I suggest apply the penguin test protocol.
I made it as a joke but it is eerily accurate.
From memory:
Are the perormers wearing black and white?
Do the performers stay in place when performing?
Are the performers expected to be using recreational drugs while performing?
Is the performance held to be judged on musical merit as opposed to political statements, spectacle, fireworks, simulated sex or drug overdose symptoms on stage?
Is the audience expected to remain in place during the performance?
Is the audience sitting?
Are many of the audience expected to be using non-legal recreational drugs?
Might some of the audience be expected to start dancing?
Is fidelity to the sound/data stream produced by the performer’s instruments (as physically addressed) highly valued?
Does the work being performed have a significant conceptual framework behind it?

This is not a binary area.
Rather the questions and answers indicate how much a performance is in the classical tradition.


Well, I guess that approach works if you subscribe to the idea of classical pretentiousness.
Myself I try to stay away from stereotypes.
Several Tomita works have separate works already though, and I want to do the same:
Iʼll do the Debussy ones atleast. That seems en pointé for the classical clean up? :​)


hi, I’ve bee adding this release
and I found (at least two) LP releases, and I’ve added those too
however I haven’t been able to find out which year this has been released in:
as well, there might be a newer SACD - edition, atleast according to some amazon and allmusic links that I’ve seen here and there.
I don’t know much about sacd and I’ve also got many more releases to look into (including a huge 8CD box set :​O)


I suspect it works cause the items are elements of the classical tradition even though they’re not expressed in the usual manner.


This one?


ok, I’m going to say this only once: I don’t CARE what the performers wear, I don’t CARE what drug the performers may or may not use, I don’t care how they move or not. I don’t care about their dramas, their celebritism, their pets, their wigs, their prestige, their duckfaces or their suits being old. all I care about is the music. and that goes for absolutely ALL styles of music.

so can we drop this and focus on the cleanup instead. please.


Errr, I hope you realize those lists are intended to be taken tongue-in-cheek—they’re not serious.

Anyway, I think you should enter a work using CSG if it makes sense, based on the way the music was released and based on the metadata we have. It sounds like the answer is “yes, it’s classical” and you can go ahead and enter those works.


yea, sorry, I understand it was meant as non-serious, but it’s never as clear to the other person on the other side of the screens, when it comes to the written medium of internet communication :​) and I was hoping not to have this thread derail into discussions on “what constitutes classical tradition” or the ilk, as I find such discussions pointless and bothersome :​)


Well it arrived finally! (issues with DHL ¬¬)
aaaaaand… Drumwhirl please!
When looking up the disc two in Picard just now, it automatically resolves to
So it was that disc all along!

This was immensively gratifying!

now I have the recordings for this, but there is also another release with recordings of bl.a. Bergamasque Suite by Monique Haas (who has sort of become a pet cleanup-in-cleanup for me, what.) and that is
So naturally I’m wondering if these are the same recordings!

It’s pretty difficult finding anything with a name like this, I have hoping to maybe find some place where it was for sale and I could listen to clips (and compare them with the Japanese release)
If anyone knows of it or owns it please speak up!

additionally I did find which mentions “The material in the anthology was mined from the back catalogue of Erato and Teldec” which leads me to think that these ﹡are* the same after all, since the Japanese disc is indeed Erato.


:edit: the plot thickens! this fingerprint (that I just unlinked from a wrong recording as the performers were different) has among the submitted user-data a Clair de lune on a “Piano Dreams” release. hmm!

(additionally fingerprinting the ripped files from the Japanese Erato disc also match so these are probably the same, and their recordings should be merged.)


The recordings on are clearly the same as those on, a compilation of her complete recordings for Erato, so those should be merged.


right, thanks!
I’ve issued the merge edits:


That’s great, thank you!

For the last day, I want to point to two more MB releases which persistently resisted all my attempts for identification:

  1. Debussy, Ravel; Pascal Rogé - Piano Works
  2. Debussy; Orchestra of Radio Luxembourg, Louis de Froment - La Mer / Nocturnes / Prélude à l’après-midi d’un faune



Since it was discussed at the summit, I should publish this report that I started one month ago. There are not many explanations but some nice graphs :slight_smile:

The ones everyone probably wants to see are those:

With the huge peak of monthly edits in middle-July and August

And the same split by day and editor:

The interactive graph is available on, bottom of the page. The original notebook is on github and bitbucket


hi, I’d be interested in if included september too, as that’s when I ended up doing most of the work I did…

in fact, I’m still sort of not done


@CatQuest: sure, i’ll have to synchronize my local database first so I don’t know when it will be done, but after that it’s just one click :slight_smile:


And I forgot to add in the report the most active contributors, for the period July 1st — September 1st the top ten looks like:

with and @stupidname way above the others
(I counted only edits on Debussy himself, so probably missed a lot a recording edits)

Congrats everyone!