"Céline Dion" vs. "Celine Dion"

The correct name of Céline Dion is with e-acute.
She used the variant with ‘é’ in her early days (in the 1980’s) at her albums.
Starting from the 1990’s she used just “Celine Dion”, with a ordinary ‘e’.
Also on her website the ordinary ‘e’ is used.

In MusicBrainz.org the artist Céline Dion and (nearly) all her albums are credited with ‘é’.
For me this doesn’t comply with the guidelines of MusicBrainz.

Strictly following the rules the artist name in MusicBrainz.org should be changed to the variant with ‘e’ and album credits (starting with the 1990’s) should be changed.
I’m sure, this will to pass the voting process.

[Corr.: Célin/Celin to Céline/Celine]

even so Céline is her proper name so the’ should stay

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i dont think any one will get upset if you use Céline Dion people are more likely to be upset if you use Celine Dion but you can use either as Celine Dion is an alise.

Proper is always preferred after all you wouldn’t want Pokémon mispronounced would you

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It’s always Céline/Celine, never Celin, as quoted above. And her website has both french and english views, with the french view using the accent: https://celinedioncom-ca.paas-p.smehost.net/fr/accueil/
So it’s not as evident (évident) as @NeroA puts it. I’d say that the artist name “Céline” with the accent is perfectly ok with our guidelines. Continuing of course to use artist credit for releases/recordings omitting the acute accent.

And then the wikipedia entries in all (latin script) languages, with the exception of english, use systematically the accent

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I would not even omit accentuated characters with AC.
I would always use Céline even if this or that edition does not show it.
I take this omission as a limitation, like in this one where it’s celine without accent and without capital.
It is AC set as Celine, but it should have been celine if we really would like to follow the cover.
I would put it as Céline, again.

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My mistake! Of course, it’s always Céline/Celine!
I’ve fixed the text in the topic. [The title was correct at all.]

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OK, it seems she uses Céline for French releases/countries (or for many non-English speaking countries) and Celine for English releases/countries.

There are sometimes English and French releases at one. E.g. Céline : La tournée mondiale Taking Chances – Le spectacle and Celine: Taking Chances World Tour – The Concert. Note: The releases differ in tracks!
Or for D’Eux: The original release used Céline, the 15th anniversary edition (incl. the Édition 15ème Anniversaire) uses Celine on the cover.

Both version of the name are still in use.
If I would create a release of her in MusicBrainz, I would use the style of the cover (spine, CD, etc.) as “credited as” but I will not change existing releases (even if I think they are credited wrong).

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Based on the discussion here, I added the two variations as aliases:

https://musicbrainz.org/edit/64214059
https://musicbrainz.org/edit/64214060

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Well, I’m not very happy with “Primary”-aliases at all, because they can cause unwanted (automatic) translations in Picard.

The automatic translation in Picard is a useful feature and for me it’s essential for non-Latin languages/writing systems (Japanese, Chinese, Arabic, Cyrillic, etc.), because I’m not able to read them.
On the other side, they often cause strange translations.
E.g. with “Celine Dion (primary for English)” and activated translation to English you will always get a normal ‘e’ (with activated translation to English), even if the/your release has e-acute.

BTW: It would be fine to have a more sophisticated translation option in Picard, like translate non-Latin languages only.

As I get an unwanted translation of ‘é’ to ‘e’ now, I plead to kick out such primary aliases, since there is no adequate support in Picard.


P.S.: Every time I get an unwanted translation I hate primary aliases (in this way) more and more.

I agree that in this instance the name shoud be “Céline Dion” with the accent, as this is her legal name.

For release where her name was “Celine Dion” without accent, I believe that the best way to manage is to use the “credited as” feature, to indicate that the name of the release differs from her main name.

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Picard will only use the primary English alias if you select to translate artist names. And that’s exactly the expected behavior then, I don’t see how this is not “adequate”. I’m not sure how Picard should guess in which cases you want the English alias be used in which not. Maybe support for specifying multiple languages would make sense.

Also missing tagger support or personal language preferences are both no reason to compromise on the data in the database.

If you want to have Céline Dion always spelt this way you could use some scripting to add an exception, e.g. something like:

$if($eq(%artist%,Celine Dion),$set(artist,Céline Dion))
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Unfortunately the metadata translation (if used) will also overrule “credited as”.

It’s not my expectation, just to have a straight translation always!
One whish would be, not to use the translation if “credited as” is used. Think also about special purpose artists, which are quite often used with “credited as”. I want to keep the value and not get e.g. “Verschiedene Interpreten” always.
Or only a translation only for non-Latin scripts, which is IMHO the main purpose of this feature (and nearly the only case I’d like to have it, since I can not read non-Latin scrips).
Another wish would be, to get feedback in Picard, if translation was used, e.g. colored background or something like this.

It’s clear that Picard can not know, in which case which alias should be used, but a more sophisticated way to parametrize it, would be fine to me.


This is not what I want. I just want the real crediting of the release, i.e. the “as credited” (but without translation for Latin scripts).


One example (I don’t know the release by now) is a compilation I own, with all three cases: A artist in non-Latin script, a SPA and an artist with a different primary alias in my language. Here I have to switch the translation on and off (and maybe also to different languages), to get the result I’d like to have (basically as credited, but not for non-Latin scripts).


I know, not everybody has the same expectance, but I hope I could show that the actual implementation is not as good as it could be (and for me not adequate).
I also know, it’s not as easy to implement a solution to solve every case automatically, but I’m sure there could be some improvements implemented easily.

Can’t you override artist in Picard when you tag an album for which the result is not suiting you?

I only tag sometimes so maybe I’m not a reference. With foo_musicbrainz, I am presented with an editable release entry from MB that I often override this or that info. Then I usually even full caps all titles and artist names, with a macro.
The tagger is just a helper, a time saver.

Of course, this is what I’m doing now, although I’ve missed several times to correct the values.

I’m also not tagging every day. I did an initial tagging (some time ago) but I didn’t check everything in detail and there are some “errors”.
Now I’m going to re-tag and I try to look more in detail. Apparent errors I fix in MB (but sometimes I use a different style). However, the metadata translation often stops the flow and I have to check it always in detail.

Sorry I understand you tag lots of things at once, so manual action might be not feasible.
When I say I only tag sometimes, I mean I only tag one release sometimes.