Don’t forget that many editors here are MUSIC people. That is the point of this site - music. So they are not going to be programmers, developers or web experts. I am still confused by this Wikidata thing as it seems backwards to me as it is removing Human Readable data and replacing with Computer Readable database links.
When I am looking at an Artist I see that set of External Links on the right to other pages and other useful information on the artist. Removing Wikipedia from here is a backward step in my opinion. The average Music Geek coming here will click the Wikidata link and not know what to do with the page that appears.
Is there any way to have BOTH Wikipedia and Wikidata links here? That way the Music geeks and the Database geeks are both kept fed with knowledge in their own language?
I realise I have not got my point across at all well. I am trying talk as a user who comes here for the musical references. Not as a programmer, but as a musician. I am trying to talk about the wider usability of MB.
@paulakreuzer I don’t have any addons installed that is corrupting Wikidata. I am just trying to point out that many many people will never have used Wikidata before and for artists like Pink Floyd there are so many different items on that page it is not obvious to the new user how to actually find the Wikipedia links.
@jesus2099 comically your suggestion is the exact opposite. I don’t have any of these strange MB scripts installed as they are even more confusing to a new user here. Those scripts re-enforce the geek level required to really use MB.
Then just use the “Click here to read more on WP” link of the WP except brought on MB thanks to WD link.
You will see WP page in English or your MB language, then from there (WP) you know how to read in another language. That’s just two clicks (or even one if the first language was enough).
There’s a problem with that. When you’re looking at a release group, you have that “Read more…” link, but when you’re looking at a release, all you have is the WD link in the sidebar. It’s kind of annoying to have to click on that link then scroll to the bottom to find the WP link and click it. And as @IvanDobsky says, not everyone knows about the relationship between WP and WD, so a lot of users are just going to see an unfamiliar link and ignore it.
I’d much rather have the generated WP link right under the WD link in the sidebar.
@jesus2099 that is the logic I was thinking. Though I would still add the Wikipedia logo on those links as I am thinking about the dumb ID-10T user that is here at MB doing research.
Shouldn’t MB know what language the user requires automatically? I know that there is a Language option as when I login that lets me swap to French/German/etc. I would have assumed that the Browser is telling the MB site which language it would prefer.
I tried swapping settings around just now but it still insisted in giving me the top Wikipedia text in English. So I am clearly missing something as I assumed that was the point of having a Wikidata link? It should allow more flexibility and better handling of language options for the MB interface.
If you are using my script, the default setting is to use your own favourite languages you have set in your browser, in that particular order, then, if adds the current MB selected language.
Click the clockwork to change this setting to a fixed language list, for instance.
I’ll refer back to my noob status and not having a clue how these scripts work.
My posts here are more about pointing out how users who are not computer geeks see and use this site. How the musical geek will come here to learn about bands, releases and mine the high quality data here. These music geeks are not going to know how to use a “browser script”.
IMHO the default site without scripts should be usable by dumb users. Sure, enhance the site for personal use with scripts - but don’t forget the majority of us haven’t a clue how those scripts work.
(I don’t want to take this thread OT by talking about scripts… seriously - I am an IT geek and I still haven’t been able to find any simple documentation to take me into those mysteries… so don’t expect Music Geeks to understand them! )
I totally agree that it should be part of MBS (I thought a ticket did already exist but no so I have just created a new one, linked here yesterday above).
In general I create a script when I cannot wait for a feature to be added to MBS, when I really need it for my personal use of MB (basically, list my records. To discover new stuff through cataloguing and to not buy doubles).
Yesterday I started to remove the Wikipedia links from some Romanian artist pages.
Then I realized that, actually, for a regular internet user, WikiData means nothing - or worse, it can mean something esoterical, something they have no time and patience to learn about. So they will have no idea that they have to click the Wikidata link and then they will find all the Wikipedia links.
And then, I think it’s better to leave all the links: WikiData, English Wikipedia and Romanian (I mean the native ) language, because that will make it easier for the regular internet users.
There is still the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article in the language you set MB to (if it exists) with the “continue reading at Wikipedia” link which is much more useful than an english + native WP link if you don’t speak either language.
On the other hand for the Romanian users who don’t speak English, that’s not so helpful. For them, it’s more useful to have a link to the Romanian Wikipedia. For example the Vali Vijelie page
But I must admit that in the same time, if they don’t know how to use the English Wikipedia link in order to get to the Romanian Wikipedia article, then probably they won’t know what the :ro Wikipedia link is good for.
A Romanian user with no English will be very confused with the current MB site, I’m afraid - the Wiki link is the least of their problems. That said, if someone eventually produced a Romanian translation, I think if someone was using it it would default to Romanian for Wikipedia as well
@OneMusicDream A Romanian would recognise the Wikipedia logo on the right hand side. They are unlikely to know what a Wikidata logo is (or how to make sense of it) I know I had never seen that WD logo before this thread.
I do not understand why the both links can not be left available. Why delete perfectly good and valid data. Why remove accessibility for other people?
I know some users keep pointing to the text at the top of the artist page that quotes some of the Wikipedia article - but other people will go direct to the links on the right hand side.
Every user uses a website differently. IMHO gathering the external links together makes it much clearer as to where to find further information. I’ll often click down many of those, opening pages in the background. This is made less easy if I have to jink back to the main artist page as well.
Also note that some albums have separate pages in wikipedia.
Yeah - great - Wikidata for the database addicts who know what that site is. But PLEASE remember normal people who barely have a grip on how the internet works. Please keep the site accessible to them too.
As a test, next time you are in the supermarket ask 20 random people what “Wikidata” is. Then ask the same 20 people what “Wikipedia” is.
Yes, its a total pain removing the wikipedia links. I am going to have to go through the whole MusicBrainz database and recreate the wikipedia links from the wikidata links. My customers dont want to see wikidata in their tags and making additional calls to wikipedia to convert these links on the fly is too expensive slowing down the tagging.
That’s just two clicks (or even one if the first language was enough).
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