Lock groove = separate recording?


#1

I’m currently working with this release group, and according to Wikipedia there are medium-specific variations in the last track. The vinyl version has the last part of the track (Joe Elliott screaming “No!”) on an infinite loop (presumably via the use of a lock groove), the original cassette version simulates this by playing the looped scream until the tape runs out, and every other version (presumably CD and cassette reissues) has the scream loop fade out.
My question is this: does this necessitate separate recordings, and if so where should I draw the line? Should the LP and cassette use the same recording? Should there be new recordings for each medium type?


#2

I’d use separate recordings, with disambiguation comments.

Not sure how to handle the infinite duration though.


#3

That’s mostly why I started this thread. I don’t know if the issue has ever been discussed before.


#4

I’d probably add the Recording with the length of a single run of the groove and add an annotation that it’s from a lock groove and thus potentially goes on forever.


#5

Seems reasonable, I did the same for a music box-- duration = 1 revolution. 1.8 seconds is an awkward duration though


#6

Seems reasonable to me too, but how do we determine the length of a run (esp. without access to the actual medium)?


#7

Do you have access to a digital copy?

If all else fails, you can leave the length undefined until someone steps up.


#8

I have a CD copy, but as I mentioned upthread there’s an added fade-out at the end.
None of Def Leppard’s back catalog is available digitally. From what I gather they’ve been in a legal standoff with Mercury Records for years and have attempted to buy back their recordings, to no avail.


#9

I’ve previously been told that things like different fade out lengths do not necessarily make a separate recording, as they can be considered mastering choices.
Not sure if that applies here though.


#10

based on that I could see treating the CD version the same as the cassette, but I think the difference between finite and infinite time is significant.


#11

So the time between two repeats of „No!“ should equal the groove length, isn’t it? And you can measure that on your CD copy.


#12

Assuming it’s an LP that’s 33-1/3 rpm which makes it 1.8 seconds.


#13

I just gave it another listen, and each “No!” seems to be a little over half a second long, give or take. From the figure Hawke gave, that would mean ~3 repetitions of “No!” would fit in a single rotation. The CD fadeout lasts for about 9 seconds, so that’d be the equivalent of about 3 rotations. This adds up with the fact that the listed track length for “No No No” on the LP is 3:05 while the Disc IDs for the CD have it set at 3:13~3:15.