# "Karaoke" performance attribute (STYLE-2096) **URL:** \ **Category:** Style\ **Tags:** officialstyle, karaoke\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 8:50am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414 "2022-04-25T08:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 8:50am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/1 "2022-04-25T08:50:06Z")
Hi! The [guidelines for the recording-work performance relationship type](https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/a3005666-a872-32c3-ad06-98af558e99b0) are fairly clear that karaoke recordings should not be marked as “instrumental”. This is not generally obvious for users (with good reason: many karaoke tracks are even marked “instrumental” to begin with). [STYLE-2096](https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/STYLE-2096) asks to add a second attribute alongside instrumental, “karaoke”, that can be used for these cases. Do people feel like there’s a benefit on specifying whether a specific recording is intended for karaoke use on the performance relationship? Or should we stick to have this only indicated with a [recording to recording relationship](https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/39a08d0e-26e4-44fb-ae19-906f5fe9435d) and maybe be more explicit about karaoke in the description of the [instrumental relationship attribute](https://musicbrainz.org/relationship-attribute/c031ed4f-c9bb-4394-8cf5-e8ce4db512ae)? ---
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 8:50am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/2 "2022-04-25T08:50:14Z")
Pinned on April 25, 2022, 8:50am UTC ---
**Author:** ![jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/jesus2099/32/36_2.png) [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 10:35am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/3 "2022-04-25T10:35:56Z")
I’ve been using the recording-recording _karaoke version of_ relationship alone. But more recently indeed, maybe as I was feeling a lack of explicit karaoke mark on the work page, to counter balance [the often used but misleading _instrumental_\* comment](https://musicbrainz.org/recording/37b8d4cd-43c1-4a49-9f45-84ba4f43aa86), I’ve been starting using the **partial** attribute of the recording-work _recording of_ relationship. So yes maybe it would be better with a specific attribute, or allow karaoke in partial attribute. \* In real instrumentals, the melody is performed by one or several instruments. In karaokes, the melody is omitted. ---
**Author:** ![sound.and.vision](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/sound.and.vision/32/35417_2.png) [@sound.and.vision](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sound.and.vision)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/4 "2022-04-25T16:35:09Z")
I would think it would work better as a work attribute (Karaoke that is) ---
**Author:** ![UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ultimateriff/32/47799_2.png) [@UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/UltimateRiff)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/5 "2022-04-25T17:12:58Z")
wow, that was fast… I just put that ticket in like, a day ago~ 😁 > [@jesus2099](#): > > In real instrumentals, the melody is performed by one or several instruments. In karaokes, the melody is omitted. if this is added, this (or something like it) should probably be added to the help text for both. I’d probably specify it’s the vocal melody tho~ ---
**Author:** ![jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/jesus2099/32/36_2.png) [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/6 "2022-04-25T23:01:18Z")
> [@sound.and.vision](#): > > I would think it would work better as a work attribute (Karaoke that is) Oh no, it would generate twice as many works for pop songs, it would be cluttering for no use, I think. ---
**Author:** ![UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ultimateriff/32/47799_2.png) [@UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/UltimateRiff)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:06am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/7 "2022-04-26T06:06:23Z")
one potential issue with this that I just thought of, songs that have translations into multiple languages. therefore the instrumental (karaoke) versions would quite possibly be the same recording. there could be a conflict of languages relating one recording to multiple works with different languages? at least depending on how/if we need to deal with this… as an example, [Caramelldansen](https://musicbrainz.org/work/5757c08f-bd40-4877-a36e-7ce2b447bec9), a Swedish-language song, has several official translations, including Spanish, German, and one (or maybe two) English versions, as well as an unofficial [Toki Pona](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona) translation. all versions have recordings that seem to use the same instrumental behind them, so I believe [one karaoke recording](https://musicbrainz.org/recording/71905149-cdcf-4fc8-b4aa-ef6d1447d047) could (in theory) be linked to all of the different language works and/or recordings. I think in this particular case, it was only ever released as a Swedish version karaoke tho~ (ウッーウッーウマウマ is a very common Japanese [mondegreen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen) from the Swedish version) an odd edge case, but not too uncommon in my experience, especially for Japanese songs. ---
**Author:** ![draconx](https://community.metabrainz.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@draconx](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/draconx)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/8 "2022-04-27T02:58:10Z")
> [@reosarevok](#): > > Do people feel like there’s a benefit on specifying whether a specific recording is intended for karaoke use on the performance relationship? Or should we stick to have this only indicated with a [recording to recording relationship](https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/39a08d0e-26e4-44fb-ae19-906f5fe9435d) and maybe be more explicit about karaoke in the description of the [instrumental relationship attribute](https://musicbrainz.org/relationship-attribute/c031ed4f-c9bb-4394-8cf5-e8ce4db512ae)? Personally I think such a relationship attribute would be totally redundant. If we want to mark karaoke recordings on the work pages then IMO this should be done on the MBS side by looking for the presence of “karaoke version of” relationships on the recordings. If the goal is to prevent uninformed users from adding instrumental attributes contrary to guidelines, I think it should also be sufficient to just have the server warn users if they try to add this on recordings with “karaoke version of” relationships. ---
**Author:** ![yindesu](https://community.metabrainz.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/y/b77776/32.png) [@yindesu](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/yindesu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/9 "2022-04-27T03:23:04Z")
[MBS-11916](https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/MBS-11916) ---
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 6:57am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/10 "2022-04-27T06:57:55Z")
> [@draconx](#): > > If the goal is to prevent uninformed users from adding instrumental attributes contrary to guidelines, I think it should also be sufficient to just have the server warn users if they try to add this on recordings with “karaoke version of” relationships. I think my main worry is that a fair amount of those beginners might not even know that there _is_ a recording-recording karaoke relationship, so a lot are probably not going to clash just because they won’t be adding that. But dunno, maybe I’m too pessimistic 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 8:19am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/11 "2022-04-27T08:19:09Z")
@yindesu: I just wrote the code for that report, thanks for the reminder 🙂 That should be useful whether or not we decide to add an attribute, in any case, just the wording should change a bit, so can’t hurt to get it done (but we’re in schema change time so it might take a month or two for it to get released, no promises). ---
**Author:** ![kepstin](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/kepstin/32/73_2.png) [@kepstin](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/kepstin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 2:11pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/12 "2022-05-02T14:11:35Z")
I support the idea of having “karaoke” as a work-recording relationship attribute. The recording-recording relationship is explicitly for marking “original karaoke” versions, where the karaoke version is an edit or different mix of the same recording - it doesn’t even cover all karaoke versions (in the west, karaoke versions are often - even usually - covers of the song by commisioned studio artists rather than by the original artist, and even in Japan there’s quite a lot of that happening). ---
**Author:** ![selflessself](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/selflessself/32/69731_2.png) [@selflessself](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/selflessself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/13 "2022-05-03T17:44:46Z")
Maybe an automatic warning if “カラオケ” or “karaoke” are in the recording’s name? ---
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/14 "2022-05-05T16:26:23Z")
@kepstin’s argument sounded sensible to me, so I added this - can’t hurt IMO. [https://musicbrainz.org/relationship-attribute/3d984f6e-bbe2-4620-9425-5f32e945b60d](https://musicbrainz.org/relationship-attribute/3d984f6e-bbe2-4620-9425-5f32e945b60d) ---
**Author:** ![yindesu](https://community.metabrainz.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/y/b77776/32.png) [@yindesu](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/yindesu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/15 "2022-05-05T16:34:06Z")
Guess now we need a script to change millions of work-recording karaoke attributes based on existing recording-recording karaoke relationships, since the definitions mean this should always be the case (but not the other way around). ---
**Author:** ![sound.and.vision](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/sound.and.vision/32/35417_2.png) [@sound.and.vision](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sound.and.vision)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/16 "2022-05-05T17:13:48Z")
Yes please, my RSI kicked in doing one with 60 tracks 💀 ---
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/17 "2022-05-05T18:43:19Z")
@loujine has a script to set different work attributes, it should be trivial for him to add an option for karaoke to it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kepstin](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/kepstin/32/73_2.png) [@kepstin](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/kepstin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/18 "2022-05-05T20:49:55Z")
Yeah - For anything that has the existing recording-recording relationship, the track on the ‘is karaoke version of’ side should by definition have the recording-work karaoke attribute added. Is this something that can be done as a batch process? ---
**Author:** ![aerozol](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/aerozol/32/116_2.png) [@aerozol](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/aerozol)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/19 "2022-05-06T00:20:58Z")
@reosarevok, there was some discussion on Discord re. if a ‘karaoke’ secondary release type might be in order as well? Has this been discussed before? ---
**Author:** ![reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/reosarevok/32/69228_2.png) [@reosarevok](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/reosarevok)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:44am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414/20 "2022-05-06T05:44:04Z")
I don’t remember it ever being mentioned, but I don’t follow everything. The closest I could find is this ticket, but I’m not sure if we would consider these should be separate RGs or not 🙂 > [Next page](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/karaoke-performance-attribute-style-2096/582414.md?page=2)