Is it possible to force the creators of new releases to add label and number?

I got out my copy of “New Rock Record” by Terry Hounsome 2nd edition, just in case you wanted to test me. :slight_smile:

I was trying to add release year yesterday for a release I physically own, and there was no date anywhere on the packaging or the medium. Discogs also has no date for it.

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Band name and title?

It’s this one, which I finally found a date for on that site. But your claim that a good source (such as the original release) will always have those fields is not true. And no, we don’t expect people to always dig as much as I did for that one. I only found it when including the label in the search terms, and even then it wasn’t near the top.

I ended up creating a master release for it in discogs in the meantime because I found it there twice, first.

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Released first time in 1960 on Reflections (correct name seems to be Red Sails In The Sunset). Sadly I couldn’t make a search on label or catalog number, since you didn’t include it. Would be easier if you gave me the information you had at the time.

That info is on the allmusic page I linked, but it’s here on MusicBrainz. I wasn’t looking for the track or the original release date, just the release date of the specific release I have.

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Why this one and not one of the other 10+ editions/pressings with same label and catalogue numbers?
None of which are released the same date.
The dates are unknown or not proven, including for the page you link to (no release date, apparently, which is the safest bet).

And no, © and ℗ dates are not release dates, they are earlier (sometimes, the original edition can be released same year but it’s not guaranteed)

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Just added, with full scans:


Anyone please have a go.
a) “CD Remastered by Daniel Groussman, March, 2004” = release date later than that.
b) Matrix/runout: “CTEXINC.COM/CA/886-501 15060”

Discogs has 2 separate releases:
https://www.discogs.com/release/6330897
https://www.discogs.com/release/8463659
Both without release groups, so I cannot link to the just added one’s.

Recordings are obviously the same as here
https://musicbrainz.org/release/adf95865-098a-40bb-9ae9-3b80d8a2dc68/disc/2#disc2
but in a different cut.

I found it to be released in 2000 (although one places did say 1984, which I don’t believe to be correct)?

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Sails-Sunset-Platters-2000-05-22/dp/B01K8MXV7I
https://www.ebay.com/p/1305432299

But those aren’t necessarily good sources.

Anyway, if you followed the thread I did relax a little and said that it’s the label and catalog number that are essential, and if you don’t have those, then you don’t have an official album. :slight_smile:

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Guessing it’s an unofficial copy. ctex.inc was (is?) an indie company. Personally I would have entered it as the original, if the titles match. No use cluttering the database with unlawful copies?

I agree about 2000, which is why that’s what I put in my edit. Amazon’s date is always a little suspect, but at least confirms the year. Allmusic has April of the same year. eBay as a source for anything except scans isn’t great, but more confirmation of the year doesn’t hurt.

It’s entirely possible that there was a version of this released in 1984, but it’s not this one.

Probably, but you might have a bootleg. :smiley: I came into possession of a few of those in some big lots of CDs I acquired recently.

This is pretty much the opposite of MusicBrainz philosophy. If there’s anything different about it, it’s a new release.

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In that case it could be a box to tick for bootleg/unofficial/pirate releases?

Yes, when adding a release you can select bootleg instead of official.

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Ok. Personally I don’t have much interest in that part. A friend of mine has a bunch of Beatles and Zeppelin, maybe even Hendrix, bootlegs. But they sound awful and don’t interest me much. Of course, they might have monetary value, but then I’d stash them in a frame and hang them on the wall (I have a copy of an album by AH-A pre A-ha, but it isn’t much to listen to. I keep it since it’s a gift from the producer). :slight_smile:

I have added a number of official releases with no label and no catalog number - not because I couldn’t find them, but because they’re self-released products that don’t have a label or catalog number. We have “[no label]” for this purpose.

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If you force people to add something they will add anything even if it’s obviously wrong. E.g. most digital distributors should be added as distributor, not release label:

Bandcamp is not a release label either yet people still add it.
There are many more examples if you search for voted down release label edits.

For certain types of edits a note is mandatory. Even when not some editors don’t bother and just write crap. I’ve seen some typing random characters. Others were just repeating what the edit type already says, like: merge, edit, update.

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I’d rather see MB move in the opposite direction - make it easier for Picard users to get what they want (Artist - Release - Trackname - Label etc) without errors being introduced into the db.

Incorrect Artists/Labels with the name desired by editors are being incorrectly attributed.
This sort of thing

  • Edit #48045367 - Add release annotation
    Text: This release has the problem of apparently being released in the UK in 1989 by a Cincinnati, USA record label that was in business from 1943 to 1968.
    Additionally artist Reid appears to be currently aged around 23 years old. And 1989 is some 28 years ago.

If in doubt, leave it out was counter-intuitive to me - but slowly the great power of it became apparent - by staying firmly within the limit of what is well evidenced an editor makes it easy for future edits to add constructively to the information.

Whereas incorrect or unreliable information opens the gate to confusing and conflicted entries in the db.

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If anyone wants an example of a Release that apparently has no catalogue number available on the internet, here is one I found today.

It features famous songs like, “Sweathart my Darling”, and that WWII classic, “The Rocks of Dover”.
Quick editing might just stop Gert en Jaap Ekkelboom from being made the performers or the writers.

As well as its clear cultural magnificence, the other benefit of having it in the database with Artist Relationships filled in is that it stops it being entered with incorrect ARs.

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I often borrow CDs from the library and add those to MusicBrainz. These will sometimes not include the backcover—and sometimes not even the booklet. This can leave only the medium itself, which will have a huge library microchip and/or barcode sticker on it, covering a lot of the print of the disc. At this point, the ability to read label information, cat. no., etc. off the release are highly diminished. I still have a 100% valid and official release, but there will be huge gaps in what I’m able to add.

Additionally, there are digital releases (e.g., on Bandcamp) where it’s unclear whether it’s released under a label or self-published, and even where it’s clear that it’s under a label, it might not be possible to say if there is a cat. no. or not.

As I write on https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Freso/Editing_principles : “Missing data is better than wrong data, or “if in doubt, leave it out””. It is always preferable to leave out data to entering data based on wild guesses.

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