# I don't think withdrawn releases should be shown in the overview (now with a poll!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Style\ **Tags:** withdrawn, user-interface, release-status, artist-overview\ **Created:** [September 1, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266 "2023-09-01T15:58:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ultimateriff/32/47799_2.png) [@UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/UltimateRiff)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/1 "2023-09-01T15:58:24Z")
Continuing the discussion from [What is "Withdrawn": a discussion thread + examples](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/what-is-withdrawn-a-discussion-thread-examples/579245): I went ahead and made a ticket based on my post over there, I’ll quote my text from there (there is some further discussion over there, click the link at the top of the quote to take a look~): > [@What is "Withdrawn": a discussion thread + examples](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/what-is-withdrawn-a-discussion-thread-examples/579245/19): > > after having a bit of a think about it, I also don’t think completely withdrawn releases\* should be shown on the artist overview (at least by default\*\*). if an artist actively tries to remove a release from their discography (or intentionally excludes it), I feel that’s reason enough to not show it in their list of albums they do want in there. > > \*for clarity, this is release groups with only withdrawn releases or a combination of withdrawn with other release statuses which hide a release from the overview, like bootlegs and whatnot > \*\*once an artist page redesign comes out and users can choose to always display all release groups like that one userscript, these could/would be shown, but as said not by default to clarify, the main reason I believe these should be hidden by default is because in nearly all cases of a release being fully withdrawn (no official replacements), the artist or label is not only not promoting said release, but actively removing said release. but currently, if you look at MusicBrainz, by default all these releases are shown on the artist’s front page (the overview). > edit: everything’s better with a poll, so here’s that poll~ _Poll ([view on site](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/1))_ ---
**Author:** ![teethfairy](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/teethfairy/32/49533_2.png) [@teethfairy](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/teethfairy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/2 "2023-09-01T16:39:08Z")
i understand why a lot of people would rather withdrawn releases be shown, but it bothers me that there’s not a way to hide them at all. sometimes i want to see an artist’s discography that’s not filled with releases that were up for a week and only 2 people have. i’d like if it were possible to show them by default, but have a prominent button that hides them. ---
**Author:** ![ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ernstlx/32/27258_2.png) [@ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/ernstlx)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/3 "2023-09-01T18:48:49Z")
The problem is: there are two fundamentally different types of withdrawals. 1. withdrawn by the artist, which would be better hidden 2. withdrawn by the label, mostly for legal reasons with no artist intent The example for a withdrawn release → [U2](https://beta.musicbrainz.org/release/cf7d995e-7765-48c3-9153-6b464631a132) is still listed in the discography on their website ([Negativland Studio Releases — [Negativland & Seeland Records]](https://negativland.com/negativland-studio-releases) ) - It would be strange to hide this release by default. ---
**Author:** ![chaban](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/chaban/32/111349_2.png) [@chaban](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/chaban)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/4 "2023-09-01T19:09:11Z")
I’d like to always see _all_ releases, no matter what status. [Hiding releases](https://musicbrainz.org/edit/101391976#note-101391976-3) will increase the likelihood of duplicates. ---
**Author:** ![IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ivandobsky/32/11785_2.png) [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/5 "2023-09-01T19:11:06Z")
> [@ernstlx](#): > > - withdrawn by the artist, which would be better hidden > - withdrawn by the label, mostly for legal reasons with no artist intent This is why I voted no. Albums get withdrawn for many reasons. I could put my finger on a few examples where an album caused controversy and had to be withdrawn - not by artists own choice. These are very interesting for the fact that they were withdrawn. As a collector I would like to see everything that was released by an artist to have a chance to get hold of those unusual items. I realise things are different in the digital only world. > [@teethfairy](#): > > sometimes i want to see an artist’s discography that’s not filled with releases that were up for a week and only 2 people have. There are many places in this database where the Released Albums list is not a discography. Try checking out some of the musicians who make soundtrack albums - their discographies are a mess due to cover bands being allowed to populate their discography due to the odd way a “soundtrack” is treated as a “classical”. Maybe what is needed is a “hide this from the artist’s official discography” flag. ---
**Author:** ![ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ernstlx/32/27258_2.png) [@ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/ernstlx)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/6 "2023-09-01T19:39:44Z")
> [@IvanDobsky](#): > > I realise things are different in the digital only world. That’s probably the point. Physical releases will not be withdrawn by artist intent. Once produced, there are costs and the artist is probably not in the position to call them back. They will reach “the end of their ‘natural’ lifecycle” whether the artist wants it or not. ---
**Author:** ![UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ultimateriff/32/47799_2.png) [@UltimateRiff](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/UltimateRiff)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/7 "2023-09-02T04:20:43Z")
> [@chaban](#): > > I’d like to always see _all_ releases, no matter what status. > [@IvanDobsky](#): > > As a collector I would like to see everything that was released by an artist to have a chance to get hold of those unusual items. I’m definitely not arguing that there shouldn’t be options for viewing all releases, more that the default (for new users and those not signed in) should be changed. perhaps even only when you’re not signed in? more to the point, this could alternately be fixed with a new user setting. I do think we need more display customization options either way > [@chaban](#): > > [Hiding releases](https://musicbrainz.org/edit/101391976#note-101391976-3) will increase the likelihood of duplicates. this is true… whichever way this goes, we could use more built-in duplicate checking when adding a new release~ > [@ernstlx](#): > > Physical releases will not be withdrawn by artist intent. Once produced, there are costs and the artist is probably not in the position to call them back two possible cases would be withdrawing releases with their deadname, or if an artist fully removes all versions of an album for [whatever reasons](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/what-is-withdrawn-a-discussion-thread-examples/579245/23). ---
**Author:** ![IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ivandobsky/32/11785_2.png) [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 9:01am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/8 "2023-09-02T09:01:42Z")
Can I just check. So we are voting to get rid of this already implemented feature? Example on the default view of the [Chumbawamba](https://musicbrainz.org/artist/7b7b1e6f-e73e-41a0-9d72-8f0b30c6992d) page Look for this 1992 album : [Release group “Jesus H. Christ” by Chumbawamba - MusicBrainz](https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/94ba6043-0c02-3cbe-9e15-34f1bd5a7c7b) It is not listed as it was cancelled. At the bottom of the page, click “[Show Official Release Groups](https://musicbrainz.org/artist/7b7b1e6f-e73e-41a0-9d72-8f0b30c6992d?all=1)” and now it is partially shown… but the year is blanked so it is dropped to the bottom of the list. I don’t understand why the date is removed as this album exists. Though I won’t pay £50 for it. It is important to note it came out and it was not the artist who cancelled it. In your Brony example you have attached **?all=1** to your link. Remove that and you’ll see the current state of the database for unlogged in people or people who don’t use a script to change what they see. (Though I can’t see any Withdrawn music in there? Or what am I missing?) This is a good example of why this is so different in the digital market. Brony decides to stop selling some music, and it is lost to everyone. Chumbawamba gets an physical album banned and it is now literally a collectors item. It still exists. ---
**Author:** ![ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ernstlx/32/27258_2.png) [@ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/ernstlx)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/9 "2023-09-02T12:10:16Z")
> [@IvanDobsky](#): > > I don’t understand why the date is removed as this album exists. This is currently set as _cancelled_, not _withdrawn_. Setting the release group date for a cancelled release could cause a date before the actual initial release date. (similar to promo releases which do not set the RG date) Withdrawn releases show up with official releases, including their date. (it was actually released, although withdrawn afterwards) > [@IvanDobsky](#): > > Chumbawamba gets an physical album banned and it is now literally a collectors item. It still exists. It looks like the originally cancelled release later became an unofficial release. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ernstlx/32/27258_2.png) [@ernstlx](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/ernstlx)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/10 "2023-09-02T12:32:18Z")
> [@UltimateRiff](#): > > > [@ernstlx](#): > > > > Physical releases will not be withdrawn by artist intent. Once produced, there are costs and the artist is probably not in the position to call them back > > two possible cases would be withdrawing releases with their deadname, or if an artist fully removes all versions of an album for [whatever reasons](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/what-is-withdrawn-a-discussion-thread-examples/579245/23). I doubt that for physical releases, except maybe for self-released and self-distributed releases. > [@UltimateRiff](#): > > I do think we need more display customization options either way 👍 …would be great! ---
**Author:** ![teethfairy](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/teethfairy/32/49533_2.png) [@teethfairy](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/teethfairy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/11 "2023-09-02T14:46:25Z")
> [@ernstlx](#): > > except maybe for self-released and self-distributed releases. more and more music is self-released and self-distributed. made-to-order websites like Kunaki make it very possible and common to release a CD and then withdraw it before any physical copies exist ---
**Author:** ![IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/ivandobsky/32/11785_2.png) [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/12 "2023-09-02T15:08:17Z")
> [@ernstlx](#): > > It looks like the originally cancelled release later became an unofficial release. 🙂 I believe the band had a heap of them they sold off at gigs. These are now what are collected. I suppose that could therefore be argued it was not released by the _label_ but self released by the _artist_? 😁 One of the big points here though is - digital media needs handling different to physical. Once something is created in the physical world it always exists until someone throws all copies onto a big bonfire. In the digital world it is much easier to release, tweak, change, cancel. You own less, it is more like renting the music for a while to listen to. (Personally one of the thing that keeps me away from digital music… I like to be in control of my collection) ---
**Author:** ![highstrung](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/highstrung/32/15259_2.png) [@highstrung](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/highstrung)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/13 "2023-09-06T21:40:31Z")
More specifically, in the streaming world. I have MP3s that I have bought and downloaded which would stay in my collection even if the release were withdrawn (or simply allowed to go “out of print”). ---
**Author:** ![derat](https://community.metabrainz.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/71c47a/32.png) [@derat](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/derat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 11:26am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/14 "2023-09-07T11:26:49Z")
That’s how I view digital media, too~~, although I don’t think I’d use the word “streaming” to describe it – I usually associate streaming with Spotify and other platforms with a subscription fee and no (official) way of downloading permanent local copies of songs.~~ (sorry, misunderstanding on my part) (It’s a tangent, and people can obviously spend their time doing whatever they want, but I’ve never really understood why editors add streaming-only releases to MB. Is it just for ListenBrainz, or is there some other purpose?) ---
**Author:** ![highstrung](https://community.metabrainz.org/user_avatar/community.metabrainz.org/highstrung/32/15259_2.png) [@highstrung](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/highstrung)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/i-dont-think-withdrawn-releases-should-be-shown-in-the-overview-now-with-a-poll/653266/15 "2023-09-07T15:10:08Z")
That’s how I would define streaming as well. I was referring to @IvanDobsky’s point that digital media is more like renting than owning; that applies to services like Spotify but not necessarily to Bandcamp which does offer a download option.