How to enter an audio drama into the database the best?

That’s my current perspective as well. Given the sheer amount of releases, the plan has to be rather clear-cut before starting to change them. Then there’s nothing to dispute.

I think it is rather vital that either an existing style guide is modified or a new one is created that deals with Audio dramas, with all the necessary details (artist credit and relationships included).

I just really don’t want the releases end up like they were before.

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That’s not really what I meant sorry - I was okay with you adding these releases in your own style, even if not in line with MB’s general style/guidelines. But now that someone is bringing them in line I definitely think the edits are correct.

I think you knew that you were forging your own path when you added these and I think it’s inevitable that they eventually end up following the style that MB has been built for. I don’t think anybody else agrees with putting everyone into the artist field, either in music albums or in audio dramas?

That said thanks for all of your hard work and I know that even though people might not agree with the style, everyone can appreciate the hard work. We’re all in it together :slight_smile:

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Cover and/or what is credited on the distribution page for a digital copy.

https://musicbrainz.org/edit/70284260
Is a great example.

We follow artist (or the owner of the work/company) intent on MB, and if they wanted everyone credited in the same way then they would all be on the cover. I wouldn’t sharpie in all of the extra cast onto the CD cover so I wouldn’t do it to my digital copy either :stuck_out_tongue:

Can you provide an example of where this has happened? There is probably a very logical reason for such a disparity.

The way I see it however: its like a movie or TV show - there’s often 10s or even 100s of actors involved; but you would refer to a TV show episode as by its main actors / recurring cast and any featured guest start (usually the principle antagonist).

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Most likely 'cause it’s a collection of short stories.

Yeah and the current suggestion goes against that line of thinking in the end :P. When entering I did generate, as a test, artist credit according to starring artists, it’s not really that nice.

I guess you could just get Audiobook SG updated to include dramas and I’ll follow that.

I’m unsure what you are saying goes against that line of thinking…

I’ve always been consistent that the Artist Credit should be the Writer and then “stars” of the drama (as listed on the cover).

This would be identical to considering (to use an example DVD close to hand) Wonder Woman having the artist credits “Stanley Ralph Ross” (who developed it for TV) “starring Lynda Carter, Lyle Waggoner, Richard Eastham & Beatrice Colen” - as listed on the DVD (back) cover.

Each episode wouldn’t have every actor listed as the artist credit though you may add “guest” stars. All actors would be linked via relationships however.

That the suggested style doesn’t always provide the effect you described.

Once I get my summer vacation again I’ll update my local DB and see if I could fix up the relationships real quick for every BF release out there.

Is MusicBrainz really the place for non music stuff?

Wonder Woman seems to be a film.
Well if it includes the film soundtrack, okay, but otherwise… :thinking:
Artist interviews, or other stuff like that, that revolves around music, okay.

I mean should we really pull our hair out for these radio fictions, etc. I feel they would more likely fit some kind of MovieBrainz.
Well I do also have some story based non-music release (also some Sounds of the forest kind of record), but I would not really mind if I should remove them from MB one day.

Edit:

But it’s just random thinking, I agree I would also try to set those records in MB like my others records because I’m building up my collection here.

Even if somehow, I don’t think I will see many relationships between these records and my music records and it’s mainly those links that are interesting to discover other non-obvious stuff my artists have worked on.

But I don’t mean don’t do it.

Wonder Woman (actually the TV Series) was being used as an example of why we don’t put all performers in the artist credit.

While you’re right it’s MusicBrainz; with the addition of style guide for Audiobooks (and broadcasts) it already became more - and Audio Dramas are simply an extension of that.

I am new around here… but I’m thinking of it as more AudioBrainz … anything which is audio in nature and generally has been released on an audio format - CD, Vinyl, Cassette, etc. It makes sense (to me and I would suggest most people) that anything released on an Audio format is included; but yes, the primary purpose is Music therefore as much as demanding new functionality to fit in Audio Dramas we need to look how to fit Audio Dramas into the existing schema.

PS. as noted in that thread; things like TheMovieDB and the TVDB do exist but aren’t structured as well as MusicBrainz is; IMO the quality of the data has improved a lot since 2016 and I’m not sure (again of course IMO) splitting resources from MusicBrainz to replicate what exists elsewhere is a good use of time.

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So first off, thank you to @Avamander for their initial work on adding all the Big Finish releases from the website. As I have access to a considerable number of the CD releases (all but a handful of the first 226 Monthly Releases plus many Eighth and Fourth Doctor Adventures, Galifrey and Lost Sories) I’ve been (slowly) adding track details and cast/production information.

So now I’ve started some additional thoughts:

All Big Finish releases have a Catalogue Number printed on the CD packaging: this is usually synonymous to the Production Number on the website but does sometime vary, or exists where there is no production number on the website.

Prior to around 2003/2004 (not sure exactly) each physical release has a barcode separate to their ISBN. Where this exists I have been adding the ISBN as a secondary Catalogue Number. I think its important to store this information. I’ve been making it clear in the catalogue number field that it relates to an ISBN.

I believe (based on Big Finish material read in combination with the Audiobook style guide) the writer and main case (stars and guest start if you like) should be used as the release artist credit. Where there are tracks which are obviously different artist credits (primarily any trailers and incidental music ‘bonus’ tracks along with releases with multiple authors) I’ve been varying the credits.

All performers (including the stars) need to be added as Spoken Vocal credits. I’ve been adding these at release level (except in the case of releases where authors vary. In addition I’ve started to add the full cast and production credits as annotation at a release group level.

For each story, I’m creating a work with author related.

My process (in the main) is to do a first pass adding track details from the releases which I have on CD, some of which I also have access to the downloads. It’s easier for me (mostly as I already have the track suitably named) to add a “release from cluster” using Picard and then merge the old listing (with no track listing) in. Sometimes I might not have the full CD to hand when I update so might leave catalogue number and/or barcode blank initially.

I will then do a second pass where I will add full performer details. Once all performers are added as voice credits I will then update the release group artists to reflect the releases.

Okay that’s what I’ve been doing and my plan. If anyone has any comments or further proposals around this plan … please feel free to comment.

Eloise

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I think you have this correct. I also add ISBN as catalogue numbers. Certainly good to see a consistent style. The only thing I’d add is what I picked up on in Shada. Episode \ Chapter \ Part titles on the tracks. Seems sensible to stay consistent with what you found on the audiobooks on the website. I notice my TV shows for Dr Who are “Episode” and “Chapters”. I think “Part” should be kept for when a recording is split.

Thank you.

Big Finish use the term “Part” on the physical CDs and the m4b chapter breaks. However if there was sone kind of consencus then i’d happily go with “Episode” (in my Picard script i drop the ‘, Part xx’ replacing it with ‘(xx)’

One more thing: the digital downloads are available as mp3 or m4b (audiobook) format. does there need to be a separate mp3 download release given (on the ones ive looked at) the files are identical to the cd tracks? Where something is download only there is more a need.

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There doesn’t need to be more releases - e.g. you’re not required to make them :slight_smile:

But they are separate releases per MB guidelines, so removing digital releases wouldn’t be correct.

All my OCD asks for it some consistency and a bit of clarity. I noticed when you added the digital files you used the “Episode” word saying it came from the BBC website.

What I found odd on that first set of track names you had:
Part One: part 1
Part One: part 2 etc

Then when you added the digital it was a clearer:
Episode One, Part One
Episode One, Part Two

Seeing part appear more than once in the track name looks confusing. Having “Episode” in there just seems clearer to read than repeating a word?
Episode 1, Part 1
Episode 1, Part 2

My copy of Shada has arrived and I see there is nothing in the booklet at all naming these tracks. I’m more used to the waffly names of other DNA works. :smiley:

It’s a bit tricky… Because we do want to use tracks as printed. So this is an example where sticking to the guidelines can make something look a bit daft. But I personally would still use the guidelines (if ‘Part’ is printed, use that, even if it ends up getting used twice).

Nothing is printed in the booklet at all for the track lists. I have a copy and this is why it is @eloise_freya using some common sense and in this case also using the Digital files elsewhere for reference.

These are multiple episodes on two CDs.

Example Release here: Release group “Doctor Who: Shada” by Douglas Adams starring Paul McGann, Lalla Ward & John Leeson - MusicBrainz and booklet here: https://ia903104.us.archive.org/18/items/mbid-63a832a3-7777-4175-8697-8aa2b1cf8430/mbid-63a832a3-7777-4175-8697-8aa2b1cf8430-27859627952.pdf

Big Finish use the term “Part” in all their releases. I’ve (in I think all track titles) put “Part One” (number in words and the whole thing in quotes, then added , Part 1 to follow the Audiobook naming standard.

It does look confusing I agree - in Picard I change that to “Part One” (1)

The releases they did in combination with BBCi I’ve left as Episode One as that’s how the BBC named the sections on the original release. Just looking now Real Time’ needs changing to say Episode One, Two, etc. unless the booklet states different.

Another thing I released tonight, some of the dates for digital releases are technically incorrect. Big Finish didn’t make downloads available until April 2008 (iirc) so no digital download show be dated before then?

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The majority of the Big Finish releases do state “Part One”, etc. in the physical CD and some cases in the booklet. Shada was an outlier as a joint production with BBCi I think the digital release is a good guide.