# How to correctly style this venue?
**URL:** https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543
**Category:** MusicBrainz
**Created:** [September 3, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543 "2023-09-03T20:06:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@chancey](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/chancey)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/1 "2023-09-03T20:06:11Z")
The [official docs](https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases/Broadcast_programs) are pretty clear on the format for the venue information in the release title:
_Location_ is of this syntax: [Venue,]City, [State,]Country
Unfortunately, the examples below that do not cover the United Kingdom which has some confusion around states and countries. Case in point:
[https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/e77efc41-94af-462c-b4e4-322a2f87154c](https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/e77efc41-94af-462c-b4e4-322a2f87154c)
Should be?
1. “Passion, Coalville, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom” (leading to 5 parts)
2. “Passion, Coalville, England, United Kingdom” because England is the state?
3. “Passion, Coalville, Leicestershire, United Kingdom” because Leicestershire is the state?
Also, is there a way we can get some UK examples added to the docs?
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### Author:  [@aerozol](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/aerozol)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 12:44am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/2 "2023-09-04T00:44:02Z")
I don’t know anything about the UK, so I can’t be that helpful sorry!
But I will say that FYI most likely this has never been hashed out before 🙂
The best thing to do is to discuss it in a thread like this, ideally get consensus, and then ask our style lead @reosarevok if you can update the [wiki](https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Specific_types_of_releases/Broadcast_programs) with the result/an example (reo can then transclude it to the official docs, if all looks okay)
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### Author:  [@mr\_maxis](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/mr_maxis)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 7:21am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/3 "2023-09-04T07:21:29Z")
The venue is called The Emporium
> **[The Emporium, Leicestershire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emporium,_Leicestershire)**
>
> The Emporium is a club located in Coalville, Leicestershire established under that name in 1995.
> Passion was launched in 1995 by the then club owners Mark Walsh and Eric Schofield, when the club was known as Crystals. Chris Hall, a London promoter who had helped set up Club UK, suggested changing the name to the Emporium and starting a dance night called ‘Passion’: he booked Todd Terry to headline the first ever event. JFK played the first ever record at Passion: the night ran from 9pm-2am, init...
Passion is the event
So for me it should be “The Emporium, Coalville, UK”
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### Author:  [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 7:26am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/4 "2023-09-04T07:26:27Z")
Usually I would use England, not UK.
I find England/Ireland/North Ireland/Wales/Scotland/Australia more concrete and UK redundant or misleading, as I confuse it with commonwealth.
But I’m not from there.
I will use what comes out of this topic, except it seems important to me to distinguish England/Scotland/etc. As it’s well known abroad (unlike the regions and UK).
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 7:41am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/5 "2023-09-04T07:41:25Z")
As a Brit who also adds gigs and venues, I’ll use UK for England as it is short to type. And Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, IoM, Jersey, etc for those separate countries.
@jesus2099 - why have you added “Australia” to your list of countries in a conversation about the UK? They share our King, but nothing else. They have never been under UK rule.
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### Author:  [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 9:43am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/6 "2023-09-04T09:43:55Z")
That’s exactly why I find England easier to understand, if we’re talking about a place in England.
**Same** queen or **king**.
If I see UK (United **Kingdom** ), for me the boundaries sound very wide and blurry.
Update:
Maybe it’s a very personal issue, because oppositely, I don’t really know the states inside USA.
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 11:58am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/7 "2023-09-04T11:58:09Z")
I think the UK do it specifically to confuse the rest of the world. And have more teams to enter in Football tournaments.
Simple version - the “United Kingdom” covers the group of islands to the left of Europe, apart from the bit that is Ireland. They are then split up into different countries who used to fight each other and have different ancient languages. They all have their own rule making governments apart from England who just has the UK government. And the UK rules over all of it attempting to tell them all what to do, with varying success. (This should go into a different thread as it is impossible to explain in simple words 😆)
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### Author:  [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/8 "2023-09-04T12:34:47Z")
I would use option 2 (Place, City, England, UK), then…
Regions are not really famous/useful (and they change with politics), except if there are several same name city in the same country.
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### Author:  [@chiark](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/chiark)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/9 "2023-09-04T19:10:15Z")
There _are_ several same named cities/towns in England though. Sometimes multiple places.
If the purpose is uniquely identifying which place a place is at, the best solution would be to use:
[Place], [City/Town], [County], UK.
For the big cities though
[Place], [City], UK
is easier if you don’t want to look up where the city is. Pretty much no-one’s going to be like, “is that the Glasgow in _Scotland_?”
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### Author:  [@chancey](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/chancey)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/10 "2023-09-04T22:39:47Z")
Thanks for picking that up. I’ve tried to be careful with non-auto edits when it comes to adding venues. I will correct that.
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### Author:  [@chancey](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/chancey)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/11 "2023-09-04T22:49:49Z")
So it sounds like overall UK is treated as the country (rather than England). So I’m going to go with:
The Emporium, Coalville, England, United Kingdom
I have created a collection for the first few places I have come across and how they would be formatted: [https://musicbrainz.org/collection/0281e304-514f-475e-9b71-4bbd64093020](https://musicbrainz.org/collection/0281e304-514f-475e-9b71-4bbd64093020)
One more thing… UK or United Kingdom? The [live style guideline](https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases/Live_bootlegs) mentions to use USA instead of United States. Should this also be true for the UK?
On a side note, I find it kind of weird that USA also has to have the states abbreviated but no other countries? What’s the motivation behind this?
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### Author:  [@tigerman325](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/tigerman325)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/12 "2023-09-04T23:24:13Z")
I thought we had to use UK according to guidelines. I always change all instances I see of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales, to just UK.
“States in the USA and Canada should always be listed (in their abbreviated form). States and provinces elsewhere are optional, and should only be added when they’re necessary to further distinguish cities with identical names.” I’m not opposed to using England, etc., though. Just always read the guidelines as not to use them.
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/13 "2023-09-05T00:07:46Z")
Ask someone who lives in Glasgow if they are in the UK or Scotland and they will say Scotland. Ditto Belfast, Northern Ireland and Cardiff, Wales. I’d leave those countries as the closer defined country. Especially note that Scotland keeps trying to split from the UK.
Scotland is a country. It also happens to be a country within a country - it is not a “province” or “state”.
England and UK are more swappable as closer connected. (All the rest have their own separate governments). (I’m trying to avoid history lessons here 😁)
I’d do either The Emporium, Coalville, UK or The Emporium, Coalville, England and not bother doubling it up.
No need to type United Kingdom when you can just type UK. (No one types out United States of America instead uses USA)
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### Author:  [@highstrung](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/highstrung)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-correctly-style-this-venue/653543/14 "2023-09-05T01:07:51Z")
> [@IvanDobsky](#):
>
> No need to type United Kingdom when you can just type UK. (No one types out United States of America instead uses USA)
In fact those are the two exceptions mentioned in the [guidelines](https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases/Live_bootlegs):
> Country names should match their [names in the database](https://musicbrainz.org/search?query=type%3Acountry&type=area&limit=25&method=advanced), except for UK and USA, which should be abbreviated.
…which also implies a preference for “UK” over England/Scotland etc as the country.