Sorry - memory ain’t that good. 
A good example of easier to find when they are grouped together.
the demo stuff is non-official, so it isn’t visible on the overview page anyway.
anyway i though i made something small to just show what i mean when we would create release lists based on each secondary type.
but i guess this example isn’t very clear…
maybe it would already be solve if in stead of grouping them on the page by “primary”+“secondary”.
but just group them by “primary” and group them by “secondary” it would already be solved
this is maybe a better example. (i know there is no demo example but the live value is the same)
you can see that in EP there are some “live” EPs. and if you look in the live part, there is a some stuff that are albums and some stuff that are EPs and other are broadcasts.
this way we don’t mix and match information that you not necessary want mixed.
Those options are already there. Kinda
But I am heavy into my bootlegs, and these filters loose those as there is a search bug that does not find bootlegs from this box. Only official
I always have ?all=1 attached to my opening of a page, but this leads to chaos
I open Pink Floyd like this… scroll the pages and see how sections repeat.
(https://musicbrainz.org/artist/83d91898-7763-47d7-b03b-b92132375c47?all=1)
If the search box at the top had the bug fixed, then finding demos gets easier.
if anybody is interrested i made a user script that would sort them by each type individual.
it takes the tables that are shown on the screen and rearranges them and then replaces the original tables.
https://gitlab.com/sanojjonas1/MusicBrainz/-/raw/main/userscript/releaseGroups.user.js
before:
after:
it should also work with bands that have multiple pages (like pink floyd) but it will only sort what was already visible on the table.
no data is requested extra from mb.
3 Likes
Oh I didn’t know this bug! Is there a ticket?
Indeed, when I filter on Demo, the Show all release groups is removed!
If I add all=1 manually, the Demo filter now works.
Is it something to fix this kind of “bug”?
Does it work when there are several pages of release groups?
its not a bug, its a feature 
its so people fill in data correctly.
we should not select no primary type just because we don’t want it in EP+DEMO.
if there is something that is visually annoying we should fix it in the ui, not in the data.
yes, sort of…
Last time I mentioned it someone pointed out a ticket.
This is a bug. And acknowledged as such. Search used to work on bootlegs as well. i.e. it could search what was visible on the page(s) (Notice how the recordings page has a “hide bootlegs” tickbox)
Look at the bottom of the page and you’ll see “Show all release groups” option. This is adds the ?all=1 bit to the URL.
Currently the only way to search “all” on this page is hacking the ?all=1 back into the search
(Someone needs to chop this tangent thread out to separate thread…)
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Just to clarify, my gripe isn’t really with how things are viewed or organized visually. It’s more about the correctness of the data.
I don’t think adding the “album” type to a cassette-only “demo” release is correct just because it’s a certain length.
[Example band] releases their demos on cassette, and cassette only, and they release their albums on vinyl/CD only. They have released two albums and a handful of demos this way.
But now that “album” has been applied to one of these demos, because of its length presumably, it’s now tagged as an “album+demo”, which implies the band has released three albums. Which is incorrect.
For further context, these demo cassettes don’t consist of material that eventually ends up on their next album or whatever. They aren’t rough recordings that will eventually be re-recorded. They don’t have any real affiliation to any album. It’s not like Metallica recording AJFA demo tapes in preparation for their AJFA album.
How something is viewed in the GUI isn’t really a big deal IMO, it’s the data that matters, as most/all of us can probably agree on.
2 Likes
says smething about the size the release:
says something about the content of the release:
you must understand that album/ep/single says more about the size of the release.
and demo says more about the type of tracks on the release.
if you think album/ep/single isn’t the correct primary type, you can always choose for “other”. anything is better then no primary type.
and thats why the data should be correct. and we should not use empty primary.
I’m not really sure what the context behind linking a bunch of Wikipedia articles is, but the most common thread found in every single one of the articles is the language:
may, typically, can be, however, often times, less than, or, more than, usually, not always, sometimes, can be described as, etc.
These aren’t ancient tablets written in stone, they are fluid and revolving marketing terms which have evolved, devolved and changed over the past hundred years.
I feel like most people’s interpretations and reliance on these fixed definitions stems solely from their familiarity with popular music, and completely erases any semblance of artistic intent, which should be playing a larger part in it. Who is to say demo isn’t its own thing? There’s hundreds of thousands of demos out there. Punk and metal bands in droves would disagree with a lot of what is popularly agreed upon, it doesn’t mean their opinion or intent is any less valid. They’ve been doing this for half a century now.
I still fail to see any real reasoning behind the stance that “Primary types are 100% necessary, they are always to be used, no matter what, every single time, for every single release to ever exist on the site, even though they aren’t even required when submitting” other than “we shouldn’t use an empty primary”.
3 Likes
what is wrong with selecting other if it doesn’t fit in any of the other boxes? then you would still pick something?
Because “other” and “none” aren’t the same thing. Other implies it’s something else, but a release might not be something else. It might just be a secondary type.
By selecting “other” to appease the demo crowd, well, we’re essentially saying it’s a demo+demo. Why not just select demo from the provided option the first time around and be done with it?
other implies its something else then the other options and for release groups the other options are album/ep/single. if you think it isn’t one of those things then it is something else so other would fit perfectly. that would mean that it would be other - demo.
nothing implies that it isn’t a thing, its nothing. if it is nothing, then why are we adding it?
Huh?
Leaving fields empty doesn’t mean that something “isn’t a thing”. If you don’t enter a date when submitting, that doesn’t mean the release isn’t a thing or that it didn’t have a release date. It just means you didn’t enter a date.
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I guess that statement is where we keep veering off in different directions. It seems like you’re not quite able to shift your perspective a smidge by considering an alternative viewpoint— one where the only type attached to a release is a type that just happens to be found in the secondary types list and not in the primary types list.
To me, a release can be just a soundtrack. It can be just a demo. It can be just a compilation. It can be just an interview.
that implies that the primary type has gives you the same type of information as the secondary types. but that isn’t the case it talks about different things.
lets make a different example transportation vehicles.
in that case you would have a primary type that tells you what it transports:
1person/a few peoople/more people/other
the secondary types tell you how it transports air/water/on the ground
- a kayak would be “1 person - water”
- a car would be “a few people - on the ground”
- an airbus would be “more people - air”
- an F1 car would be “1 person - on the ground”
- a amfibic car would be “a few people - on the ground - water”
- a delivery drone would be “other - air” (it doesn’t transport people but it does transport something, and it does this by air)
its clearly that the primary type and the secondary types give information about totally different things.
to go back to the release group types.
if you think that the release group isn’t a single/ep/album, then what is is? something else? → take other
if the content of the release groups is live/demo/inteview add a (or multiple) secondary types.
but if you have a transport vehicle that doesn’t transport anything, it should be on the transport vehicle list.
this is a totally irrelevant statement. leaving a type empty is different from leaving other values empty.
leaving other values empty means that “we don’t know” what the value should be. and having incorrect data is worse then having no data.