Clarify MetaBrainz Code of Conduct

This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.

I’m going to keep this locked for a week. Hopefully during that time we can look at the flurry of flags coming our way. Please:

  1. Flagging everything back and forth does not help.
  2. Assuming bad faith does not help.
  3. Insulting each other does not help.

I’ll keep the actual topic about how to handle the name open - please post on that one only if you have ideas how MusicBrainz should best deal with the actual data issue, not to debate other people’s ideas about transgender topics.

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Hello all, and sorry about the delay in replying to this.

Rewriting the CoC is something that has been considered for a while. The suggestion here is definitely on the table for once it’s gotten around to!

That’s a really good point. In a lot of cases being “neutral” is just not appropriate. I don’t like “civil” either, as, say, trans people have all the right in the world to be angry when their existence is threatened (e.g., by implying that their existence is an “idea” or “ideology”). This is definitely something that needs to be considered as well. Thank you for bringing it up!

The change @elomatreb proposed to the CoC would not remove anything already there, but would only amplify that we do not tolerate various forms of bigotry around here. Us adding a list of bigotries explicitly does not in any way change what moderators have to “decide and determine”, just making it more clear to people looking at the CoC that those are very explicitly not allowed. Doesn’t mean other bigotries are allowed either. Doesn’t mean moderators have more or less of a job to do determining whether something falls under this or not.


I have hidden several posts in this topic that were being demeaning to new community members. I have rejected flags that were done to tone police community members. I have hidden/accepted flags with transphobia in them, even if the transphobia is dog whistled and the poster may not even be aware of how it’s transphobic.

Lastly, not directed at anyone in particular, just meant as a general statement:
Trans rights are human rights. Trans people’s existence and lives are not a topic for debate. There is no “trans ideology” (or “gay agenda” or what have you). If you disagree, then you disagree with our Code of Conduct and should consider whether this community is right for you.

We can discuss how specific things are dealt with in relation to the data and database, but it must always be based on this understanding.

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What was proposed by elomatreb would only require a moderator to decide that a post or group of posts was problematic.
This is importantly different to what hiccup presents.

I’ve had at least one of my posts hidden and then deleted. The post clearly created problems that I didn’t understand and so was removed without any moderator having to decide that my ideology, rather than what I posted, was the problem.

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I was only asking for some honest and open commentary and discussion about the criteria when and why posts get cancelled on MusicBrainz.

Obviously this was triggered by:

  1. One or two new hit-and-run forum members that to my belief were pushing some agenda, raising an imaginary issue that never posed an actual problem on MusicBrainz.

  2. MusicBrainz forum moderator Freso, who seems to have some personal bias or agenda that seems to be a force in cancelling posts.

I noticed a while back that he had personally decided to actively cancel a lot of my posts in one long streak.
(and probably posts from other forum members too)

Not because they contained any profanities or any plain untruths.
Not because they were flagged by other members, other than probably the two hit-and-run newbies/activists that were not seen again. (mission accomplished?)

He probably cancelled them because these posts voiced an opinion, or contained suggestions on motives that he personally doesn’t agree with, and don’t sit well with some current social/political motivated movements.

So to me it seems like MusicBrainz currently has a forum moderator/manager that doesn’t care much about free speech and open discussions, and is happy to cancel posts that contain opinions or that have a tone that he personally doesn’t agree with.

Freso also killed and locked a perfectly valid and (in my opinion) interesting and relevant thread about what the system and methodology is behind posts getting cancelled on MusicBrainz.

When closing that thread he said that he ‘allowed me’ to contact him by means of email, but adding that I would probably not like his response.
Beforehand. Without him knowing what my arguments would be.

I have no opinions to hide, so I am not much interested to resort to private mails on such matters.
I also find it strange to invite somebody to send an email, but at the same time announcing the reponse will be negative.
That seems like some tough-talk to me. Not a true invitation for an honest discussion.

So, no thank you. I like open and honest discussions. I like fora.
Not hidden and biassed one-way conversations.

To me this confirms that MusicBrainz currently has forum moderation/management that is not interested or capable in properly managing open and honest discussions on sensitive or perhaps somewhat difficult topics.
Personally I have the impression that the man in charge doesn’t even like internet fora to begin with. Which is weird.

Anyway. This is just my personal take on things.
After this streak of cancelling posts happened a while back, I decided I would not spend any more time and effort contributing to the MusicBrainz forum. (under current management)

So besides this being a post to relieve my bowels on this matter, it’s also a goodbye.
A big thank you to all forum members that contributed and made a difference!

_

edit:
A final suggestion for improvement:
The wording here doesn’t seem right.
It probably should be changed to say ‘Post hidden by Freso’.

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Thank you @Freso for enforcing rules of conduct on the forums, trying to ensure that everyone and anyone feels safe to join and contribute to our community.

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Be sure to report my post aerozol.
And this one too probably.
I am sure somebody thinks these posts violate somebody’s security.

What a time we live in

I’m a dangerous man these days.
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
I am glad the world is my safe space.

I don’t know
 after reading this thread i start thinking may be i should post here only about strongly technical topics. I live not in first world, not immersed to its discourse and public live. So i can’t be sure what will be ok, and what will totally unacceptable fully immersed to it. e.g. «first world» still acceptable term or in first world it’s sounds offensive for non-first-world people?

Wow I didn’t know this word.
Having only 3 kinds of countries? Sounds crazy! :face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Don’t worry too much. :wink:

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Oh for crying out loud


  1. Freedom of speech means you’re not at risk of being disappeared by the government if you criticise them, not that someone can’t lay down some ground rules for their club forbidding pooping on the floor.

  2. LGBTQ+ concerns are not a “first-world problem”. Queer folk exist everywhere, including your country - yes, yours - whether you like it or not, and you can’t blame your “culture” while posting from a device that grants you access to a wealth of information and news sources.

  3. Can we not go around in circles about this? :dizzy_face:

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If ever having a post removed and the code of conduct explained is the ~ end of the world ~ for you, then that is probably a safer option?

If not then don’t worry about it, Freso wont hurt you :grin: :+1:

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This going to be a long, drawn-out goodbye?
Maybe something that will live for the ages?
You’ve some stiff competition, but then you also are speaking to moderns with modern sensibilities.

(from Julius Caesar, spoken by Marc Antony)

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answer’d it

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Here we go, seems like i am already broke some taboos and now should prove that i am not KKK member or something

Problem of queer folk in my country is mostly not being in jail, not being beat up or killed by police or some kind of homophobic activists. Rude word in internet not most important topic of local pro-LGBTQ+ discussions

Did you understand how colonial this phrase looks?

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Oh I really am not qualified enough in English to even understand what is between the lines of each posts.
So I will just stop replying in this topic(s?).

I just have many great gay friends (girls, boys, married or not, with children or not, old or young), I don’t see why I should treat them less friendly, less respectful, less light-hearted, less natural than my other friends.
I don’t see a difference in their behaviour with me as friends, that would be coming from the fact that they are gay.

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i think people use developed/developing country instead of instead of first/third world more often now, but “developing” just feels like a bad euphemism for “poor” that ignores exploitation by “developed” (rich) countries.

it’s a term from the cold war

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Here we go, seems like i am already broke some taboos and now should prove that i am not KKK member or something

Nobody thinks that, get over yourself. :roll_eyes:

Problem of queer folk in my country is mostly not being in jail, not being beat up or killed by police or some kind of homophobic activists. Rude word in internet not most important topic of local pro-LGBTQ+ discussions

Meanwhile, LGBTQ+ here are dealing with the prospect of the current government wanting to kill the Human Rights Act, and potentially wanting to roll back their rights and reintroduce Section 28. And also getting physically assaulted by random douchebags.

This isn’t a competition.

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Just trying to follow you, where is here?

The UK, which, in case nobody has noticed, isn’t exactly doing too great after Brexit at the moment, not that it was doing well beforehand anyway. :confused:

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First World is offensive to the extreme sensitive leg of the cancel culture movement.
First World implies some sort of privilege, and certain types of people don’t want to be known as such.