… although I guess they thought on seconds, not minutes
I would keep the same recording, even with 2 hours of silence.
By the way, some cleanup should be performed for this release.
It does have a disc ID with track 11 of 4:32, but it also have 9 disc ID with track 11 of 3:32.
That’s because it was previously cleaned of longer disc IDs.
@jesus2099 @elomatreb ← it’s more a technical reason for separating them. Editors adding a release with a 4:32 track 11 will struggle to associate it with a 3:32 recording. I’ve seen this when I once merged recordings with a difference of 2 minutes (applause).
I also say to keep as same recording, as per guidelines.
It is literally the same recording, just goes quiet for a bit at the end.
There is a LOT of clean up going on in there. Don’t worry. Takes a bit to separate these out, but check edit histories and we have been working hard in there.
I can see it is going far better than expected. You’ve done a great job in there. Noticed a few other users popping up and confirming their discs. I kinda feel a bit guilty for showing you the rabbit hole you seem to have dived deep in to. I did some of the easy work early on clearing out the obvious stuff. You’ve taken this to another level. Thanks.
… But it’s sometimes hard to get to the information you want, and really tiresome. Thank you for inspiring me…
But I’ve learned a lot about these releases and can now date most of the versions - from first hand information to specific details (the sample credit) and some logical conclusions.
Non-PolyGram plants were only involved in the beginning, when they needed every capacity available - except Telford stepped in after Blackburn was closed in 2009 and Arvato (matrix imprint) after Langenhagen was closed in 2017…
And sometimes just impossible to get it. It is why I ran away from the debate with Tokyo Drift in the Other Place. They were on the Tiresome scale for me…
You mean - “Learnt more about these than any sane person would ever want to know.” What is it we do to ourselves in this place? I know exactly what you mean about delving into those little details. It is why I started digging in there. Those DiscIDs were annoying me. I totally understand your chase. And know the work it takes.
Looking at the Made in Germany by PMDC release, now we have that discID I think it is time for the Flame Thrower on those disc IDs that are off from 53:22. Not something we were able to do until that discID was verified.
What is interesting to me is this means the track+gap was pressed onto discs outside of MAYKING.
It was pressed in Blackburn (“by Mayking”) and in Langenhagen (the sister plant), and we have at least one more disc ID with silence. Nimbus (“by Mayking”) is a candidate, but Nimbus released booklets with sample credit and there’s a very early Optimal version without sample credit (of course in Germany, and there are also Australian versions without). Why should it be Mayking only?
… and wait with the flame thrower!
Only reason I started with Mayking is that is the only CD I own.
If you are making up a bit of a list where you are seeing this “track + gap” then that is worth adding to the annotation on this recording (see - we are still on topic… lol)
I have only lightly toasted the discIDs. Took the __surrounded one out, and one with a really weird length. The rest are still there. I have already torched a LOT of pre-NGS junk in Debut and I think this is one of the few left now with 10 discIDs…
Flame thrower now turned off.
There is a short list of versions with silence, a longer list of versions without, and still several versions unknown. I will provide it of course, but I doubt anyone will have seen it before adding the new recording.
Maybe you should burn them all and we can catch people adding them anew.
That is the basic plan with pre-NGS data. If it is removed, then someone adding it now will have better selections to work from.
Trouble with that release is there are three unique DiscIDs added post-NGS but with no edit notes. Hard to know if they can be trusted. You’ve found a 53:22 example. If this is the TrueDisc™ then we need to remove the 52:21 blasphemers. They are a full minute wrong.
My flame thrower tells me that any edit without an edit note deserves the napalm.
Do it whenever you like…
I was naughty…
Now I’ve got several “virtual copies” of releases labeled 1993:
- the exact same disc owned by @IvanDobsky and me (Blackburn-Mayking 10268181 02 &), same discID, attached images show the corrected booklet, including the sample credit.
- images of a Mother 521 323-2 BIEM/STEMRA-on-back release high-lightened a copy … with the discID of the CD layer of _surrounded ← so much for the reliability of dubious sources
- a copy with 4:32 track 11 and a new, unknown disc ID (no images or any other information ← That’s what I meant by “2 steps back” )
- a Langenhagen 521 323-2 02 > disc ID (low resolution/high compression images of same back as above, although it more likely belongs to this release) … but this version has “incorrect track lengths” on track 7 ‘One Day’ and 8 ‘Aeroplane’. That’s solved now: the index is 8 or 9 seconds early - the faint interlude part, usually at the end of 7, opens 8 on this one.
Regarding recording annotation:
Known releases with additional silence (track length 4:32) have matrix code:
- MAYKING RECORDS TPLP31CDX 10268181 02 & (Mother Records tplp 31 cdx / 5016958020620)
- 521 323-2 02 > (Mother Records 521 323-2 / 731452132321)
- two more unknown versions
→ 1) 2. and 3. PDO UK versions (see RG annotation)
→ 2) 6 European versions, 2 Israeli versions, 1 Mexican and 1 Korean version (???)
…how should a useful recording annotation look like?
I’ve cancelled my edit. The _surrounded version has a 4:40 track 11 - a short silence.
And separate recordings for 7 and 8? They should probably be left as they are, although there’s an audible difference when listened to individually … 7+8 = identical
I’ll be on the lookout for newcomers.
First couple of sentences need to be in the kind of non-geek language that normal people understand.
Then maybe a geek list at the bottom.
Some early releases of the Debut CD rips this track as 4:32 due to a large pre-gap between last two tracks.
The audio ends at 3:30 like on the later CDs, but some have a bigger 60 second silence before the last track starts.
MAYKING RECORDS TPLP31CDX 10268181 02 & (Mother Records tplp 31 cdx / 5016958020620)
521 323-2 02 > (Mother Records 521 323-2 / 731452132321)
I’d make those examples clickable because I like things clickable. You probably don’t need to list every release here with these changes, but mainly you are aiming to explain why the different recording lengths in the list.
But if you want to have somewhere to keep a list - then I don’t see a better home that here on the recording. Just put the list last…
Is the “geek list” necessary at all? The complete list is noted and maintained in the RG annotation. You’re first two lines will probably do.
“Clickable” is always attractive. Feeds the hope of hidden secrets …
And for sure it’s not necessary to add any long lists. That’s boring.
“Keep It Simple” is always better. I’ll go reword my current note to now be a little more generic.
And off course, all the examples are clickable in the Recordings list below anyway.
Reworded it - but also added more details as to why. Recording “The Anchor Song” by Björk - MusicBrainz
I forgot to mention it, but the _surrounded version (3:40) should also be mentioned.
… there is a separate _surrounded RG
Have added the __Surrounded details in too. Have a look now.
I like adding little facts like this. The little snippets of knowledge make things interesting.