# Adding correct member data gets messy
**URL:** https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764
**Category:** MusicBrainz
**Tags:** member, artist, relationships
**Created:** [September 18, 2024, 8:06am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764 "2024-09-18T08:06:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@sanojjonas](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sanojjonas)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 8:06am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/1 "2024-09-18T08:06:58Z")
if you are adding the correct member information in music brainz it gets messy (while i think it use to be cleaner)
like here it looks good
but if i add the same instruments but in a deferent time, i get this
why is the first one grouped (=good & clean) and why is newly enterd stuff all split up (=bad/confusing)?
i know this is in the editing screen only because on the relations tab it looks like this
but still it would be less confusing if they would be grouped
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### Author:  [@outsidecontext](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/outsidecontext)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 8:30am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/2 "2024-09-18T08:30:28Z")
It depends on whether you add all instruments in a single relationship
Or each individually in a separate relationship.
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### Author:  [@sanojjonas](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sanojjonas)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 8:37am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/3 "2024-09-18T08:37:59Z")
no it doesn’t because i had added them all at once. but the outcome was still individual instruments.
here i will try to add an example (i won’t save this)
when i press the done (gereed) button it looks like this:
so it ALWAYS makes seperated entries of this. and i think it used to be different. thats why the old orignal entry does this as expected. and editing won’t change it. its in the ADDING that it goes wrong i think
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### Author:  [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 8:51am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/4 "2024-09-18T08:51:04Z")
Exactly, it used to be grouped or split, depending on the cases, but it has been decided to split all relationships to remove some complexity.\*
So, each time we edit relationships, they all end up split, now.
\* Or something like that
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### Author:  [@sanojjonas](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sanojjonas)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 9:11am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/5 "2024-09-18T09:11:31Z")
but in my opnion this adds complexity and more work. because if you have to edit one member that played multiple instruments, you now have to edit it at multiple places.
while with the old way you only needed to change this on one place.
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 10:50am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/6 "2024-09-18T10:50:38Z")
There was a database change for it… not too long back.
The most confusing editing is when you have a band that quits and reforms more than once. That becomes madness of editing to change each instrument one by one for each time period. I [had one the other day](https://musicbrainz.org/artist/26f94a6a-d60a-4bcc-a130-ce0e77122bd7/relationships) and have to say your visuals did make that easier to check. Reading the wall of text in the edit page was hard to follow.
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### Author:  [@chaban](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/chaban)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/7 "2024-09-18T14:59:09Z")
@Bitmap recently explained why this had to be done:
> [@How to handle what seems like duplications](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-handle-what-seems-like-duplications/711044/2):
>
> A [while ago](https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/MBS-1377) it was decided to split each instrument into its own relationship (but merge them for display in the UI). This was done to make data entry and storage more consistent; previously an editor could\* set any number of instruments on a relationship, which meant that all of the following were allowed to exist simultaneously: original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals) original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals, flute) original member: Ian McDonald (flute) original member: …
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### Author:  [@sanojjonas](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sanojjonas)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/8 "2024-09-18T15:25:24Z")
> [@How to handle what seems like duplications](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/how-to-handle-what-seems-like-duplications/711044/2):
>
> original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals)
> original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals, flute)
> original member: Ian McDonald (flute)
> original member: Ian McDonald (flute, saxophone, mellotron, keyboard)
i think this should still be possible, the problem with this example is that the start & end are missing
for instance (these are fictive dates):
original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals) (1990 - 1991)
original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals, flute) (1994 - 1995)
original member: Ian McDonald (flute) (1997 - 1999)
original member: Ian McDonald (flute, saxophone, mellotron, keyboard) (2001 - 2005)
but if you split them all up it would look like this:
original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals) (1990 - 1991)
original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals) (1994 - 1995)
original member: Ian McDonald (flute) (1994 - 1995)
original member: Ian McDonald (flute) (1997 - 1999)
original member: Ian McDonald (flute) (2001 - 2005)
original member: Ian McDonald (saxophone) (2001 - 2005)
original member: Ian McDonald (mellotron) (2001 - 2005)
original member: Ian McDonald (keyboard) (2001 - 2005)
wich makes the list much longer then neccessairy.
i do understand that if the band doesn’t split up and reform again but they just switch functions it could be cleaner:
original member: Ian McDonald (background vocals) (1990 - 1995)
original member: Ian McDonald (flute) (1994 - 2005)
original member: Ian McDonald (saxophone) (2001 - 2005)
original member: Ian McDonald (mellotron) (2001 - 2005)
original member: Ian McDonald (keyboard) (2001 - 2005)
but i don’t think this happes very often, mostly people play a (or multiple) instrument(s) and when they quit the band and rejoin, they play the same set of instruments.
so i think it is important that the start & end date are taken into account
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2024, 11:54am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/9 "2024-09-25T11:54:36Z")
On a related question - why can’t a band member be credited for “vocals”? Can only be Lead Vocals or Background, etc.
Very common for a band to have a Lead Vocalist, but other band members have songs they sing. Or they all pile in on a chorus. There is currently no way to note this. A “vocals” credit cannot be credited at band member level
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### Author:  [@RVMWSN](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/RVMWSN)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/10 "2024-09-25T14:30:06Z")
I’ve sometimes left out the vocals, because I wasn’t sure whether to pick lead or background vocals. A generalized ‘vocals’ would have solved this, and could later be specified when more information is available.
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/11 "2024-09-25T16:20:17Z")
> [@RVMWSN](#):
>
> I’ve sometimes left out the vocals
This is what I have also do. Can only really set a Lead Vocalist and no way to note if someone else covers a few tracks.
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### Author:  [@jesus2099](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/jesus2099)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/12 "2024-09-25T21:56:55Z")
>
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### Author:  [@sanojjonas](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sanojjonas)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/13 "2024-09-27T19:43:44Z")
i have done the opposite. if an person has the lead vocal for 1 song i will add the lead vocal to that person, if it does backing vocal for a different song, i have added backing vocal for it.
so it is possible for a person to be lead vocal & backing vocal.
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### Author:  [@IvanDobsky](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/IvanDobsky)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/14 "2024-09-27T21:51:55Z")
> [@sanojjonas](#):
>
> so it is possible for a person to be lead vocal & backing vocal.
Yeah, exactly. Now try work out how to do that at Artist level for the Group.
Add in in they do lead vocals on only a couple of tracks.
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### Author:  [@sanojjonas](https://community.metabrainz.org/u/sanojjonas)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2024, 10:50am UTC](https://community.metabrainz.org/t/adding-correct-member-data-gets-messy/714764/15 "2024-09-28T10:50:54Z")
this band exists of 3 band members.
each play their own instrument.
ALL of them do some backing vocals for some tracks.
some songs have Alessio on lead vocales and other songs have Sean on lead vocals.
on the songs that Alessio sings lead vocal, Sean does backing vocals.
and on the songs where Sean sings lead vocal, you have alessio doing Backing vocals.
i think that if there would be a general category “vocal” for if you don’t know if a member sings lead or backing.
but if you know they do both then i would add both.
(i also think that on wikipedia they often just say vocals)