Ok, I want a consensus on how to handle this. Early last year, prior to the AC credit option, I edited the US release (https://musicbrainz.org/release/daeb42b2-eb61-40f8-bb78-f0a3c3469aee) of ABBA’s Waterloo to show how the name appeared on the cover art and label. It is credited as ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida). To do this I had to add credits to each member within the parenthesis as separate artists. This makes it look as if 5 artists are on the track, when in reality it’s only 1, ABBA. Now, I think, the AC credit was credited to handle situations like this. I’m trying to change the artist on this one release, which I initially changed, and am getting shut down. Ring, Ring has been edited to appear the way it was on the initial release using the credit as option to show the individuals as all one artists, ABBA. This is how I think it should be. Note: I’m not the one who edited Ring, Ring. That was done obviously after the credit as feature was an option. So, should all the Ring, Ring and other Waterloo releases that show either ABBA, or ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida) or Björn Benny & Agnetha Frida (as it is on Ring, Ring) be listed as 5 or 4 separate artist working together or is it just ABBA and use the credit as option for the variations as I think that option was created to handle?
What you did is actually using the Artist Credits feature, exactly. It did already exist.
Now about your question, I used to prefer linking to all artists but what you are now trying to do (the group as this that text) is actually what I witness to be the most people preference…
The Waterloo release group is how I think it should be. But, if we think it should stay like it is on the US release than I’ll accept that. But then all of Ring, Ring and the rest of the Waterloo releases will need to be changed for consistency. It’s an odd situation.
We could link the individuals everywhere: Agnetha Fältskog credited as “A”, no joinphrase, Björn Ulvaeus credited as “B”, no joinphrase, Benny Andersson credited as “B”, no joinphrase, Anni-Frid Lyngstad credited as “A”.
ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida)
ABBA is the group
Björn is a person
Benny is a person
Agnetha is a person
Frida is a person…
It isn’t pretty, but this is how it is listed. I don’t like it, but it is correct.
Reintroducing similar (or the same) edit over and over is not cool. This is the third time you’ve tried basically this edit. We’ve voted. Let it be.
No, you voted. And I think you are wrong. I’m getting others opinions on the matter.
I humbly admit that I did not go review the edit history before my original post on this matter. I did NOT make the original edit. I had tried to do the same thing that I’m trying to do now, except for from ABBA as a single artist. It was going to fail, because people thought it should be left as just ABBA, until they saw the cover & label. So, the current way was created. I guess when I went back recently and saw all the Ring, Ring releases the way that I wanted it I remember the events incorrectly. Anyway, I’m not trying to start a feud or get my way. I have a little OCD and just like consistency and wanted them all be handled the same way. I can go back and edit all the Ring, Ring releases if that is desired. I just disagree with 1 artist being linked to 4 or 5 different artists’ name as the same artist and wanted a second opinion on the matter.
I have sympathy with your mental health issues, but that does not negate the style-guide. Your local tagger can be scripted to suit your OCD (I wrote my own tagger for this reason); don’t force your OCD on the database.
But we do follow what is printed. Sometime, a different title or a differently credited artist is what distinguishes another edition of the same album. We do keep that.
I find this whole discussion a bit confusing. So we agree in this thread that it should be credited as ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida) and not ABBA, but we do not agree whether to make it just a single alias for ABBA or whether to use the credits system to properly link the individual artists included in the credit, right?
If so I don’t quite get it. The credit system actually gives us a nice option to add all the individual artists included in more complex credits. Why not make use of it? Even back then on the Waterloo release the group name was ABBA, but they decided to list the individuals, too. Why shouldn’t we do that, too?
This wasn’t the issue. It was consistency about HOW it is handled. All the Ring, Ring releases, say ABBA is the artists credited as Björn Benny & Agnetha Frida. In other words, that’s just another name for ABBA. On US release of Waterloo it is ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida) credited as ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida) with each member, Bjorn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida, being credited separately. Why weren’t they credited separately on Ring, Ring or do we recognize that it truly is just one artist, ABBA and use the credit as ABBA (Björn, Benny, Agnetha & Frida) so it shows how it is on the cover and label?
I have found nothing in the style guideline that addresses this. That’s the problem. I don’t have mental health issues, I just like consistency. Right now, there isn’t any on these releases. I have no idea why you are attacking me when I just have a different opinion. Also, if we go back and credit Ring, Ring, the way you suggest than it will no longer be listed on ABBA, which is wrong, because it is recognized as their first release. It would be just the 4 members. I assume the release group would stay under ABBA because enough reissues, etc. use the name ABBA, but the originals and many reissues do not. It varies upon release throughout each of the two release group histories.
I think @sbontrager was referring to
EDIT: sorry @outsidecontext, that’s not meant to be a reply to you
Ok, this is just harsh. I guess I’m wrong. I was just trying to find a consistent solution. I know why he said that, I wasn’t being literal when I said I have a touch of OCD. I’m not Monk.
I’m not saying anything, just trying to explain why someone said they had sympathies. As it happens I have some sympathies for your position on this, though I’m not sure either way.
So, I think @tigerman325 is right.
The original release of Ring Ring is correctly credited to ABBA, even though the individuals are listed, because that was the name of the group (rather than a collaboration of individuals).**
Waterloo was the group’s first outing with the name ABBA, so it’s understandable they pointed back to the group’s old name (shame it doesn’t match up perfectly though).
Although it’s not the same, you wouldn’t credit Toots & the Maytals separately to Toots and The Maytals, and you wouldn’t credit “Lee Perry as the Upsetter” as two Lee “Scratch” Perry’s joined by " as the "
** I don’t think Ring Ring should be credited as “Björn Benny & Agnetha Frida”, that’s the artwork and the ampersand is huge, on the vinyl label and on ABBA’s website it’s credited to “Björn & Benny, Agnetha & Frida”
Thank you. That is what I’m trying to point out.
As someone with a mild case of OCD, it is a mental health issue. I wasn’t attacking you, being rude, or calling you crazy, I was expressing genuine sympathy with a disorder you now say you don’t have. One does not need to be Monk to have OCD–which quite often only exhibits in one small way in a person’s life. My compulsion is buying music–seriously. I apologize for expressing sympathy. But when someone has a mental health disorder, the correct response should be sympathy. Be careful when you say you have a mental health disorder if you don’t. Someone might take you seriously.
If the issue is consistency across releases, then it is a matter of editing the less correct releases to match the one more-correct release, rather than making the more-correct release less correct. I can do that in less than an hour if that’s what people want.
The way this community works is that if only one person votes (non-abstain) it is a valid vote. The fact that there isn’t some quorum doesn’t matter. I’m the only one who has cared enough to vote–and last time I looked I’m the only one who has marked that they have this exact release in their collection (not that it matters for voting)–so “my” vote is “our” vote.
If the underlying issue is how “Ring Ring” is handled. Deal with it on “Ring Ring” not this release. Correctness should trump consistency. If “Ring Ring” needs a special case, do the special case there.
I don’t think Ring Ring should be credited as “Björn Benny & Agnetha Frida”, that’s the artwork and the ampersand is huge, on the vinyl label and on ABBA’s website it’s credited to “Björn & Benny, Agnetha & Frida”
Then we should credit it as ABBA’s website does, not as an ABBA release. I wouldn’t fuss if “Björn & Benny, Agnetha & Frida (ABBA)” was the final decision. But making it an ABBA release when even they make a qualification is a bit strange on our part.
The only problem is I don’t think you are correct. What you are saying is that every group like, i.e., Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, should have a separate link for each part of the name. I disagree with this. I’m not sure why you disagree with this, but you seem to. ABBA has had 3 different names, but they are all ABBA. Why not use the credit as feature to show this? You keep saying what I want is incorrect and it’s no more incorrect than what you are doing. Unless there is a style guideline that explicit says how to handle these situations, which I cannot find, than how do you know you are correct and I’m not?